What's with the need for gadgets?

[cameron]

The HR monitor on easy runs-- Although I have given Cameron a lot of Shit about this and the use of them .

 :lol: no harm no foul

i'm planning on using the HRM for ice age if i can get my lazy @ss out the door and get in those long runs.  we'll see if it helps keep my effort in check...

[Jason]

 Zeke  

 So they replaced the headphones with a band at the track meets? What a great idea. Maybe that'll lead to more spectators too.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Guess that is why I am a math major and not a english major.

[A. Rooney]

Why is it that I try to enjoy a perfectly good day then somebody has to ruin it?

Why do runners wear earphones?

Why do people continue driving even though the light has turned red?

Who leaves only one piece of crust in the bread baggie?

Why is it?

A. Rooney

[ferris]

Ryan, you ask why people NEED these things..well, that question starts to open Pandora's box. I mean, why do we NEED a BMW when a Pinto will still get us there (maybe). For the most part, all I NEED for my run is a pair of shorts and shoes.

I think if we get into the whole WANT vs NEED of gadgets and things, we'll have a strain of posts that looks like it belongs on RW.......BAD!BAD![/b]

[Evets Sberk]

Personally I find anything other than the clothes on the body ruin the Zenn aspect of the whole thing for me. I never know what to say when someone gives me a nice new running watch because I know its going unopened in the box in a drawer.  Even racing I never a watch, I find I race better if I race by feel :roll: .....different stokes I guess

[magpie]

I consider it nothing more than yet another manifestation of the convenience/instant gratification trend that society is careening along in the comfy confines of a handbasket -- as well as signifying that there are those who are likely not cut out to exceed in the sport.  Many of these people do not have the patience or dedication/will to trust the process and see something through that does not have a relatively immediate payoff.  A lot of them would significantly alter how they train every two weeks because what they want to see is not happening soon enough.
Headphones - if people really do not enjoy running enough to do it consistently without feeling any yen to distract themselves from the task at hand, then what does that say?  I think Sir Sebastian Coe put it well: "By and large, a person who notices the scenery or the Wagner or whatever is playing in his hears cannot possibly be working as hard as he should be."  Also, attempts to downplay the potential danger amount to nothing more than so much rationalization; any sound that can be heard directly will come at the expense of hearing other sounds in the background -- this is a no-brainer.
GPS - something I might consider using . . . if I were given one to use for free.  Truth is, though, it would not change one bit how I train, either for better or for worse.  Not much sense in doling out dollars for something that would obviously make zero positive impact.  It is really no trouble (or source of anxiety (!)) at all to estimate the length of any route I chose, even if it is a wholly unfamiliar one -- and, fact is, it truly benefits me and my training and racing none to know the course length any more accurately than that.  I suspect that a good number of those who have such a hard-on for this gadget are going to be the types who monitor the pace every minute, if not more often -- how freeing and enjoyable, eh?
HRM - another device -- which I have used (it was generously bestowed upon me) -- that did and would essentially tell me nothing that I did not already know.  I would not need to know my heart rate (which is known to often fluctuate relative to pace/effort) to know when to slow down or speed up or when to take a day off, etc.  I have enough discipline that I do not see any need or any sense in ceding that responsibility to a less-than-ideally-reliable form of feedback, especially when I already have a consitently reliable source: what my body tells me.  
When it boils down and the contrivances float away, this stuff is no more useful than a tach in a car with an automatic transmission.  In fact, paying attention to such peripheral paraphenalia can often interfere with the learning process which will yield the best performances, as Ryan indicates.  It is like handing a kid who does not know how to multiply or divide a calculator - he is never going to learn how to accomplish the task(s) without relying on the device.

[Ryan]

It is like handing a kid who does not know how to multiply or divide a calculator - he will never going to learn how to accomplish the task(s) without relying on the device.

This made me think of my mother. Every child she knows gets a watch for their 6th birthday. When my niece got her watch, someone looked at it and said it's not a digital watch, she doesn't know how to tell time yet so it's useless for her. My mother said that's the idea, now she has reason to learn how to tell time. My brother and I never got digital watches until after we learned how to tell time. In second grade, while the rest of the class was learning how to tell time, I already knew so I got to do something different.

As you pointed out, same thing goes with running. Rely too heavily on gadgets and you never really learn how to judge your pace or how to listen to your body. You just do what the gadget tells you to do. Given the facts of cardiac drift, you're basically screwed when it's race time and you're trying to judge effort. As for pace, unless you want to strap your GPS on in a race, same thing goes for that. Personally, I'd rather learn to judge pace on my own and be as light as possible on race day.

Still, if I go back to my original point, I can't understand the NEED for these things. Is it impossible to run without distracting yourself? Impossible to run without knowing exactly how far you're going and your precise pace every step of the way? Impossible to run without knowing how quickly your heart is beating? Someone should tell the Kenyans, Ethiopians, Japanese marathoners, etc. that all of this is impossible.

[magpie]

Someone should tell the Kenyans, Ethiopians, Japanese marathoners, etc. that all of this is impossible.

Not to mention Bikila, Shorter, Rodgers, Salazar, and the hordes of sub-2:30 marathoners - heck, all marathoners and distance runners - in the 80s and earlier.

[RandyS]

Why is it assumed that anyone who uses a GPS or HRM 'NEEDS' it. I know most people, myself included, would do just fine without them.

If they did'nt exist I would still run as much as I do with them. So, I don't 'NEED' to use them; I 'WANT' to use them.

I don't see the problem. Why should it matter what gadgets someone else uses. If you don't WANT to use a GPS or HRM, don't use it. What possible concern is that of anyone else.

I have many things that I WANT, but don't NEED. Should I tare down my exercise room and go to the gym, pave over the swimming pool and start going to the beach, maybe sell the Jaguar and get a Volkswagan.

Why not have a discussion about these things. Why do I NEED them?

What I find more interesting then the question of why people use these devices is why people who don't need to discuss it at all. Everyone knows what the devices do, some people find them useful, some don't. What more needs to be said?

And magpie, what difference does it make to me what items 'Bikila, Shorter, Rodgers, Salazar, and the hordes of sub-2:30 marathoners' used or did'nt use? If it makes you feel more like these greats by not using a GPS then by all means don't use one.

Randy

[Jeff]

I actually have every one of these gadgets.

HRM- Hate it.  Wasted my money on it.  Didn't think I needed it but thought it would be "neat".  I found that it held me back from exploring my true potential.  I would be willing to bet this happens to A LOT of beginners and they don't even realize it.

Headphones- Can't wear them while running.  Too much of an avoidance.

GPS-  Love it.  I like the fact that I can go anywhere and still know how far I ran.  I like to keep track of all my mileage.  After the run I enjoy going to the "recall" option on the gps and checking out all of my splits.  I realise you can still keep mile splits with a regular watch but you can't if you have never run the course and don't know the exact mileage, this is where the gps comes in handy.  Most days I don't care about splits and just run.  But when I do want to know my splits this is a very accurate and easy way to do just that.

Jeff

[Ryan]

Why is it assumed that anyone who uses a GPS or HRM 'NEEDS' it. I know most people, myself included, would do just fine without them.

It's not assumed. See my original post. I'm talking about specific statements of "I NEED headphones to overcome the boredom of running" (in which case why are you filling your recreational time with something that is so boring?) or "the GPS gives me the freedom to run anywhere I want" (because it's impossible to do so without a GPS?) or "I NEED the HRM to keep my easy days easy" (because you couldn't possibly run easy without constantly monitoring your heart rate?). If you WANT it, knock yourself out. I'm trying to understand the statements of NEED. I've actually tried to ask someone why they NEEDED a GPS in order to run wherever they felt like it and they actually told me it's impossible to run wherever they feel like it without one because they wouldn't know the exact distance they ran or their exact pace. Are exact distance and exact pace that crucial? In that case, I guess I'm destined for failure because I know my exact distance and exact pace probably no more than 10% of the time (of course, I don't have an exact percentage either, probably closer to 5%).

[Jeff]

Why is it assumed that anyone who uses a GPS or HRM 'NEEDS' it. I know most people, myself included, would do just fine without them.

It's not assumed. See my original post. I'm talking about specific statements of "I NEED headphones to overcome the boredom of running" (in which case why are you filling your recreational time with something that is so boring?) or "the GPS gives me the freedom to run anywhere I want" (because it's impossible to do so without a GPS?) or "I NEED the HRM to keep my easy days easy" (because you couldn't possibly run easy without constantly monitoring your heart rate?). If you WANT it, knock yourself out. I'm trying to understand the statements of NEED. I've actually tried to ask someone why they NEEDED a GPS in order to run wherever they felt like it and they actually told me it's impossible to run wherever they feel like it without one because they wouldn't know the exact distance they ran or their exact pace. Are exact distance and exact pace that crucial? In that case, I guess I'm destined for failure because I know my exact distance and exact pace probably no more than 10% of the time (of course, I don't have an exact percentage either, probably closer to 5%).

Interesting.  I haven't actually been around anyone that thought they NEEDED these things to run.  All of the people that I'm familiar with that use these things, use them because they think they are handy.

I'm quite new still so I haven't been around  all that many other runners.

If you have run into people that think this way, I agree, maybe they need another form of recreation.

If you don't know your exact distance no more than 5% of the time, how do you keep such accurate logs?

To each his/her own, I guess.

Jeff

[magpie]

Although my post was not directly to you, since you indicate that your response is (at least in part) directed to moi . . .

Why is it assumed that anyone who uses a GPS or HRM 'NEEDS' it[?] I know most people, myself included, would do just fine without them.

It is not assumed.  Have you been paying attention?

If they [didn't] exist I would still run as much as I do with them. So, I don't 'NEED' to use them; I 'WANT' to use them.

Knock yourself out, tiger.

I don't see the problem. Why should it matter what gadgets someone else uses. If you don't WANT to use a GPS or HRM, don't use it. What possible concern is that of anyone else.

You may be unable to see the problem because there is not one.  Not for me, anyway.  The concern, however, is regarding how the sport is being dumbed down, and the proliferation of said devices is another sign, if not a method, of its demise.

I have many things that I WANT, but don't NEED. Should I [tear] down my exercise room and go to the gym, pave over the swimming pool and start going to the beach, maybe sell the Jaguar and get a [Volkswagen][?]

Do whatever you want.  Any sense of entitlement on your part does not hold me or anyone else back.

Why not have a discussion about these things. Why do I NEED them?

Oh, I dunno . . . maybe because they do not have much at all to do with running?

What I find more interesting then the question of why people use these devices is why people who don't need to discuss it at all. Everyone knows what the devices do, some people find them useful, some don't. What more needs to be said?

Heck, why discuss anything at all?  Free expression is such a waste of time and effort, as is critical thinking.  Never question, just accept.  Ja, mein fuhrer!

And magpie, what difference does it make to me what items 'Bikila, Shorter, Rodgers, Salazar, and the hordes of sub-2:30 marathoners' used or [didn't] use? If it makes you feel more like these greats by not using a GPS then by all means don't use one.

Clearly the analogy was lost on you.  If it makes no difference to you, then that sums things up neatly.  In that case, my post(s), including the above quoted passage, likely had and have nothing at all to do with you.

[Ryan]

If you don't know your exact distance no more than 5% of the time, how do you keep such accurate logs?

Have I ever made any claims about the accuracy of my logs? To the contrary, I have stated frequently that I probably run a few miles per week more than I log because I tend to underestimate the distance I run in the interest of making sure I don't overestimate. There's a reason I only log my distances to the mile instead of logging to the half mile or tenth of a mile like some people do. If I think I ran 7.2 miles, I just figure no harm done in calling it 7 miles.

Just this past week, I realized I have probably been running primarily in the 7:15-7:20 pace range, if not a bit faster, when I've been estimating all along that I was running in the 7:30 pace range. That didn't change my log. According to my log, I ran 69 miles last week with most of my runs in the 7:30 pace range. I know it was likely 70+ miles but that's just not a concern to me.

[RandyS]

magpie,

What I meant in my final comment was: Wearing a GPS watch will not make me (or you) a better or worse runner than without it. Overall the post was otherwise not directly specifically at you.

I am a mid-pack runner, with or without the GPS, and my potential is not related to what gadgets I use while training.

And Bikila, Shorter, Rodgers and Salazar are elite runners; and would be with or without a GPS watch.

A runner is not going to become better or worse simply by virtue of putting on (or taking off) a GPS watch.

So how many ways do I have to say it. I wear a GPS because I like it and want the information it provided me. I like to know how far I run, exactly how far I run.

For those that are not interested in the accuracy a GPS provides; great. I don't post questions about why they don't NEED more accuracy. I like that information and again I do not see how having that information changes anything.

Randy