If you're going to Grandma's, leave your iPod at home

[Ryan]

Ryan would probably say that is your body telling you to take a day off

Not by default. Some days, you have to push through difficulties to get the training in.

But, to hear people at the start line of a marathon say, 'Are you kidding?  I couldn't get through this without my Ipod.'  I have to wonder why they are there in the first place.

Precisely my thought.

How did it get to this point, though?  I did not enter many races during the explosion of portable digital music.  I assume that there were several incidents and the 'only' course of action was to ban the root cause.

Actually, it doesn't seem like a knee-jerk reaction to me. This is something that has been building momentum for quite some time, first due to the potential of problems and now due to the actual problems.

Last year, I e-mailed an RRCA officer in response to the article I referenced early in this thread. She informed me that the RRCA has been encouraging headphone bans since the 80s due to the recognized risk. Insurers caught on to the idea when they had to start paying out liability claims that were headphone related. Finally, USATF got into the act. In my opinion, this was anything but a knee-jerk reaction. If anything, they were dragging their feet on the issue. It's about time they see what the RRCA and race insurers have recognized for many years.

[GTF]

If some one NEEDS music to run, perhaps they should find another cardiovascular activity which they find more stimulating.  If someone cannot run WELL without music, might I suggest that they show up for the event better prepared.  I don't think it can be denied that there is a motivating element derived from music and some people may in fact run better while listening to it.  I have no problem with anyone who sports the headphones to get through a workout on a day where they just aren't feeling it. (Ryan would probably say that is your body telling you to take a day off)  But, to hear people at the start line of a marathon say, 'Are you kidding?  I couldn't get through this without my Ipod.'  I have to wonder why they are there in the first place.

Indeed, this is a highly appropriate interpretation and response to the query in question.  It could also be said that if the supposed (I have never found it) "motivating element derived from music" is what is needed to do a run or to run well then, as you suggest, those people would probably be better off finding an activity that interests them more or using a stationary cycle if it is supposedly impossible to do any aerobic activity without headphones.  It seems more believable from the mouth of one Sebastian Coe when he offered something along the lines of: if you are paying attention to the music then you cannot possibly be working as hard as you should be.

This is all a moot point because of the rules of most races.  No headphones.  I'll abide whether I like music while running or not.

It definitely still happens despite clear rules.  I have seen statements on the topic from individuals who visit such fonts of ignorance as the forums attached to the Gallowalker's Earth and Jogging Journal websites.  This attitude (to which is what the initial pair of questions was a response) is not imagined, it is real (unless said forums are rife with disingenuous trolls, which they may be) and all too common. 

How did it get to this point, though?  I did not enter many races during the explosion of portable digital music.  I assume that there were several incidents and the 'only' course of action was to ban the root cause.  I have never been a fan of this sort of knee-jerk reaction.  Ban the music because some people can't run with headphones.  That is not fair to all the others who can run responsibly with music.

I could own an AK-47 responsibly, but there is no way I would be comfortable with my idiot neighbors having easy, legal access to such ordnance.  They cannot even handle a stereo appropriately and thoughtfully.  It got to this point because the notion of 'what I want, when I want, wherever I want' became widespread enough that when confronted with "can I do it?" the progression to and truly thoughtful consideration of "should I do it?" became rarer and rarer.  It can frequently be seen borne out in people driving poorly while clearly holding one hand to an ear, this despite hands-free headsets being commonplace and despite even laws that were enacted to discourage such willful disregard for the safety and lives of others.

Many of us have pointed out incidents where someone drops an Ipod at the start and gets trampled or causes someone else to fall.  I have never seen anyone post anything about the majority of other runners who don't cause any problems.  So is it the music or the person?  With the increased popularity of running, I think there are more people running races that know nothing about the etiquette of a road race (mainly referring to starting according to ability and the use of headphones).

Certainly, I have been party to a similar conversation elsewhere (I will go grab the appropriate quote and paste it below).  As soon as there is a way to weed out and eliminate thoughtless people from the starting line then that problem will be solved.  Nearly a year ago I was running a large (entrantwise) 10K race and twice I had thoughless/senseless people cut me off because they did not turn a head to check before making a sudden lateral move across the macadam directly in front of me.  I am certain that they did so without having even one of their senses blocked except voluntarily from within.

I would guess that there are far less problems with Ipods in the back of the pack because things don't happen as quickly.  For that reason, I could be convinced to support an Ipod corral at the very back of the starting area.  That would put the impetus on the user to navigate traffic responsibly, or just choose not to use at all because of the immediate disadvantage.

Which might work for most cases, though races exceeding even a mile in length would likely see several thoughtless, deliberately hearing-impaired individuals work their way up into the middle of the field and cause the same old problems. 

Or just stick with the status quo, except enforce it.

What status quo would that be?
Anyway, while race directors might indeed be pleased to see problems caused by people who deliberately impair their ability to hear go away, it is likely insurance liability concerns that drive such bans.  If a headphone-wearing numbskull causes major injury to another participant, the race management and its insurance company can point to their attempt to have prevented the situation.  If there is no such ban, there could be culpability found in the race management for not doing all that they could to prevent the circumstance from occurring.  Those addicted to the headphone teat, however, have been used to getting their way on the issue and consider it unfair and an unnecessary restriction.  There will always be those who are too selfish/immature to accept any change, no matter how trivial, that might benefit the greater good.

"Is it a headphones thing, or a people thing?"

Regarding the question at hand, it's probably some of each, though the roots are certainly in the latter and the former is merely a vehicle used to deliver the attitude. As a society, we westerners are spoiled and really don't consider all the consequences of all our actions, we want to believe that we're rugged individualists and any action can be justified if it serves to get us ahead. Win at all costs, in a sense. This very well could be an era of decline for western civilization -- but I digress.

[rehammes]

She informed me that the RRCA has been encouraging headphone bans since the 80s due to the recognized risk.

I had no idea the issue went back that far.  I suppose 'knee-jerk' was a poor choice of words.

What status quo would that be?

I am referring to the current ban on the use of headphones at most races.  For enforcement, I would settle for a simple announcement before the gun reminding runners that the use of headphones is a violation.  I can't say that I've ever heard one.  I would be curious to find out if those in violation are aware of it. 

[sueruns]

I know someone that has headphones and pushes a double stroller.......
the local newspaper always interviews him, so where's the incentive to stop?? 

[Ryan]

I would be curious to find out if those in violation are aware of it.

I can't speak on how many know it but some most definitely do because, whenever the topic comes up, they will let everyone know how strongly they feel about it and say they will continue wearing headphones no matter what the rules state, usually actually challenging race directors to do anything about it.

Given that attitude displayed by some of them, I say the race directors should take them up on the challenge. If they catch someone with headphones in violation of the rules, disqualify them.

[Ed]

As a society, we westerners are spoiled and really don't consider all the consequences of all our actions, we want to believe that we're rugged individualists and any action can be justified if it serves to get us ahead. Win at all costs, in a sense. This very well could be an era of decline for western civilization -- but I digress.

I agree with GTF the "it’s all about me" attitude = ruinous. 

In a race I would never carry any music device with me.  I just hope that (since I am a middle pack runner) those around me can hear me.  I know I can get loud enough but I do not want to expend that energy or get frustrated and throw my game. 

Yes I like to run with music on rare occasions but only on a treadmil or alone on the Ozaukee County interurban trail.

[GTF]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070724.LIPOD24/TPStory/?query=abarbanel


RECKLESS RUNNING?: MUSIC IS MY RADAR
Sounding off
Race organizers say running to U2 is dangerous, but some competitors insist they can't live without their tunes. David Andreatta reports.

DAVID ANDREATTA

July 24, 2007

Tracy Abarbanel runs to her own soundtrack. Every step along the Rideau Canal is fuelled by a steady stream of U2 and Bruce Springsteen and myriad eighties artists pulsing through the white snake-like cords of her iPod earphones.

"For me, having music for running is right up there with having a pair of shoes," said Ms. Abarbanel, 33, a psychologist and recreational road racer from Ottawa. "Not having my iPod for a race would be like breaking a lace at the starting line."

Road races are loaded with legions of runners like Ms. Abarbanel, whose devotion to the sport runs second to their love for the gadgets they say keep them going.

But music-dependent runners are increasingly running smack into opposition as race organizers discourage or ban electronic devices from their contests.

New regulations quietly adopted this winter by USA Track and Field, the governing body for the hundreds of long-distance running races held in the United States each year, prohibit digital music players and cellphones from road races.

While enforcement is left up to organizers of individual races, runners stand divided between iPod lines. Attempts at some events to confiscate music devices at the starting line have hit a sour note with some participants, while at the same time earning quiet adulation from purists who view the gadgets as a hazardous distraction.

Regulations previously recommended that headphones not be used during races for safety reasons, but a USATF spokesman said the language was strengthened at the request of race organizers, who complained that runners ignored pleas to shed their iPods because the rules were not explicit.

"You can't be fully aware of your surroundings when you've got music blaring into your ears," said Jim Estes, who oversees long-distance running programs for the USATF.

"A car could be coming up behind you and you'd have no idea."

Athletics Canada, which sanctions some road races here, does not prohibit electronic gadgets in its contests and has no plans to do so, according to spokesman Mathieu Gentès. "It's not an issue for us right now," he said.

Some Canadian races, however, have taken matters into their own hands.

One of the country's largest races, the Toronto Marathon, which is expected to draw as many as 12,000 runners this October, strongly recommends against the use of music devices. It provides live musical entertainment along the 42-kilometre route to fill the void.

"It's difficult to hear what's going on around you, and we're running on city streets where, if there's an emergency vehicle going by, you're not going to hear it," said marthon director Jay Glassman. "When we see runners wearing [headsets] we ask them to remove them."

But the exploding popularity of both iPods and recreational running in recent years makes enforcing a no-iPod rule difficult. The effects of the ban in the United States are only now beginning to reverberate through the running world like the pounding of rubber soles on concrete.

Attempts to confiscate headsets at the starting line of a marathon in Duluth, Minn., last month sparked outrage among competitors. Runners in Florida are reported to be planning to circulate petitions over plans to ban music players at upcoming marathons in Miami and Palm Beach.

"Music is a necessity for me," griped one recreational half-marathoner recently on a forum hosted by Completerunning.com. "There is no freakin' way I'd make it through 2+ hours of pounding the pavement without a soundtrack!"

At the same time, purist runners are singing the praises of the prohibition.

The above post was immediately followed by this: "Hurrah for the ban! In my [recent race] I made a point to try to talk to three different runners that wore iPods. Not one of them ... heard me speaking right next to them. They certainly wouldn't hear a race official or vehicle, either."

Racing enthusiasts say there is also a question of whether electronic devices enhance performance among elite runners who make their living from road racing. Using a cellphone or music player during a race could be interpreted as getting assistance, which is also against the rules.

Many runners use particular tunes and GPS units to calibrate their pace. Lance Armstrong, the seven-time Tour de France champion, ran last year's New York Marathon wearing shoes equipped with sensors that sent data about his pace to his iPod.

For some runners, music provides a spiritual lift. Others use music to keep from getting bored on long runs. But most serious runners believe that music players have no place in races, or even in training.

"When I'm running, I want to be aware of what's going on, to listen to myself breathe," said Ken Parker, 65, a founder of the Ottawa Marathon who now coaches Ms. Abarbanel and other women on a club team.

"Now it's almost like some people are looking for a distraction somewhat," Mr. Parker said. "They want to do the exercise but have their head in another dimension. I don't understand it personally, but I appear to be in the minority."

For Mary Jane Middlekoop, an Ottawa lobbyist who runs with Mr. Parker, the random thoughts that swirl through her head on training runs are music enough to her ears.

The former University of Tennessee distance runner tried to embrace running with music a few months ago by using her fiancé's iPod on a run.

"I just couldn't stand it," Ms. Middlekoop said. "You don't need a watch, or a heart-rate monitor or music to go for a run. You just need to grab your shoes and run out the door. I'm creating my own soundtrack of thoughts when I run."

[Ryan]

Interesting article. Also, interesting timing of posting the article as I've just today noticed the topic make a comeback elsewhere as a few people are reporting that they are now getting notes in the mail from Grandma's telling them that they have been disqualified. Reportedly, two individuals refused to give up their iPods at the starting line and about 40 were spotted crossing the finish line with headphones. Bib numbers were recorded and those individuals have now been disqualified.

A couple of notes about the article.

First, it's using the loaded term "purists" to describe those of us who support the ban. This is a term that those who support headphone use like to use in an attempted disparaging way to suggest that we simply don't want new technology showing up at races. Basically, they seem to like to use this angle as a way to shift the focus away from what most of us are actually concerned about, the safety issue.

Second, the article reports that "Attempts at some events to confiscate music devices at the starting line have hit a sour note with some participants". I would note that the only race that has been getting any notice for confiscating headphones at the starting line has been Grandma's and every report I've heard from there was that runners were very cordial and accepting of the ban. Yes, two refused to give up their iPods and some others managed to sneak their music players past the check point. However, how about mentioning that these were a distinct minority, apparently less than 50 of over 13,000 runners? I'm sure a few others complained but reports from the race at that the complainers were far outnumbered by those who were accepting or even appreciative of the rule and enforcement.

Third, the article also didn't mention the positive side of the ban at Grandma's and only mentioned the reason in passing. Reports from Grandma's are coming in that emergency vehicles were able to get where they were needed much more easily this year than in years passed, when headphone wearing runners would not hear them and get out of the way. Sounds to me like the rule and enforcement improved the safety of the event.

Finally, one more note. Grandma's may have been the first to practice such enforcement but don't think they are going to be alone. Already, organizers for Chicago, Twin Cities, and Marine Corps have stated that they will this fall be implementing and enforcing headphone bans and organizers for New York, while still being on the fence a bit, seem to be leaning that direction.

[Ryan]

An interesting article just posted online about the Grandma's iPod ban: You Can Stop the Music! Grandma's Proves Enforceability of Headphone Ban (pdf)

An interesting segment:

On race day, several volunteers, one of whom dubbed himself an "iPod Cop," stood at the entrance to the start corrals, looking for runners with headphones. According to that volunteer, only two runners at the start had been stopped and refused to surrender their music players.

In addition, the usual cadre of course marshals were instructed to watch for and note the bib numbers of headphone-wearing runners, as were workers at the finish line. The finish line workers' task was made easier by Grandma's use this year of single-use timing Chips; not having to collect Chips in the finish corral freed workers to watch for headphone violators.

In the end, they didn't find many. Out of 13,248 finishers in the marathon and accompanying half marathon and 5K, less than 40 were caught wearing headphones. These runners were sent notices saying their performances would be removed from the results, and were given a chance to appeal that decision. It is not known if any have chosen to do so.

Grandma's did a great job of educating runners before the fact, then gave people the opportunity to surrender their headphones at the start line or get disqualified. I would say that about 40 violations and resulting DQs out of 13,248 finishers would suggest the education/enforcement process worked. It also sounds like other RDs are already looking at this and planning to follow suit with education/enforcement procedures.

[GTF]

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080501/SPT/305010047

Some choice quotes:

“The music gets my mind off running long distances,” said Hartwig, 24, of Hyde Park.

“Really, they’re not allowed?” Hartwig’s friend Elizabeth Yoke asked last Saturday before a training run, a look of anxiety suddenly transforming her face. “I don’t think I’ll be able to run without my iPod.”

“It’s almost become an unenforceable rule,” said Fred Finke, chairman of the long distance board.

“So it would be a failure of my leadership if we don’t address this in the next month or two because right now it’s a rule that’s just not working. Still, it’s a safety issue because if you have headphones in, you can’t hear directions from a course monitor if there’s an emergency.”

“If they rescinded the rule, it would be a lot easier for us,” Simpson-Bush said. “We don’t feel it’s appropriate to put ourselves in a position of policing this.”

The Flying Pig’s policy of discouragement without enforcement aligns with most marathons but is at odds with the Twin Cities Marathon in Minneapolis, where 176 runners were disqualified in October. Ten pairs of volunteers were stationed throughout the course to watch for runners with iPods.

“I thought there would be more enforcement by other marathons,” Twin Cities director Virginia Brophy Achman said. “When you’re training all those weeks on trails or open roads, it’s dangerous to have headphones on.”

serious runners don’t wear headphones in either training sessions or races.

“Part of running is being able to focus on how you’re feeling. The iPod brings in so many distractions to that process.”

Those distractions are exactly why Woodlawn’s Joe Gast Woodlawn will be wearing an iPod in the half marathon, running with encouragement from Eminem and Pearl Jam.

“I want to be distracted,” Gast said. “I find running to be boring, and without an iPod, it hurts a lot.”

Michael Fecher will consider both sides of the argument Sunday when he is running the full marathon, listening to artists like Big & Rich as well as passing traffic.

“I’ve got two ears,” Fecher said. “But I’m only going to have headphones in one of them.”

Which is great so long as he keeps all of the other runners and all of the race officials on the side with the removed headphone.  Somehow marathons in Minnesota have figured out workable ways to enforce the rule so why would it seem so tough or even impossible to other marathon organizers and bureaucrats?  Are they simply unwilling?

[r-at-work]

“The music gets my mind off running long distances,” said Hartwig, 24, of Hyde Park.

so take up tiddly-winks  ... geez...or scale back to a 5K... no one is forcing these people to run long distances, no one is forcing them to run marathons, or at least marathons that enforce the rules... I must be getting old as I am so much less tolerant of people saying stuff like this... there are SO MANY OTHER SPORTS, why do something you don't like, something you have to take you mind off of?
-Rita

[Ryan]

“The music gets my mind off running long distances,” said Hartwig, 24, of Hyde Park.

“Really, they’re not allowed?” Hartwig’s friend Elizabeth Yoke asked last Saturday before a training run, a look of anxiety suddenly transforming her face. “I don’t think I’ll be able to run without my iPod.”

So take up another sport. If you dislike running so much that you need an iPod to distract you to such a degree that you forget you're running, then why are you running in the first place?

“So it would be a failure of my leadership if we don’t address this in the next month or two because right now it’s a rule that’s just not working. Still, it’s a safety issue because if you have headphones in, you can’t hear directions from a course monitor if there’s an emergency.”

Out of all the things in the article, the last sentence from that quote is the key. No matter what anyone says, it is a safety issue. I've seen it with my own two eyes (and heard it with my own two ears). Plugged in people, no matter how much they insist they can hear everything around them, do not hear instructions from race officials or warnings from other runners. They are a hazard on the course. No matter what these people say, their actions speak volumes and those actions make it clear that this is a safety issue.

[BirdDog]

even with as small as these devices are getting, who the hell would want to carry one for that far?!?!?!  i sweat too much and would drown a pair of earbuds or headphones.  Besides, on training runs & races, I like to enjoy the sights and sounds as much as the running.  It's part of the entire experience.

[KD]

YEA!  Geez...took long enough.  I am not an iPod w user on the road...that is my freedom from all things connected to the social world...ANyway...will all marathons be implementing this rule? i am running my first on in San Fran this August?

[Ryan]

will all marathons be implementing this rule?

No. Check with the marathon you are entering on whether or not the rule is being enforced. Some are not USATF sanctioned and, as a result, have no requirement placed on them to enforce the rule. Some USATF sanctioned events are blatantly ignoring the requirement that they enforce the rule and saying they will not. Unfortunately, instead of standing up for themselves and for the safety of the runners, the USATF as a result is going to consider repealing the rule.