For those who have completed a marathon

[Garboni]

When you ran your first marathon, was your goal only to finish or was it more than that? And what was the longest distance you ran to prepare for your first marathon?

[Ryan]

Started or finished?

When I started my first marathon, I had a time goal that I was not fully prepared for. My longest run was 20 miles and my longest week was a little over 100 miles.

When I finished my first marathon, a little over a year later, I also had a time goal but I was fully prepared that time. My longest run was 30 miles and my longest week was 161 miles.

[Garboni]

I guess I meant having finished the full marathon. Do you mean you did not complete your first marathon, and that the second marathon you ran in was the first you finished?

Wow, 30 miles seems like a lot to me. For some people that could be a five hour run! But I guess that could be OK for some people.

[Layne]

I ran completed my 1st marathon in 4:31:55. My first goal was to finish, my second was to break 4:30. I trained with the local running club that held runs of 14,16,18, & 20 miles. 1994 was also the same year that Oprah ran her 1st (and only) marathon in 4:29:20. Being beat by Oprah Winfrey was the catalyst for my continuing to run. That was 93 marathons ago......

[MothAudio]

Definitely just to finish. The idea of actually doing a marathon didn't pop into my head until the inaugural Columbus marathon but I didn't act on that impulse until three weeks before the 2nd running. I went out for a run to see how far I could go, that was 17 miles and based on that I felt I could finish. I felt as confident as one could expect considering my experience and preparation. It ended up being the easiest of my 19 marathons.

[r-at-work]

ran my first just to complete it, followed an on-line program with the longest run of 20 miles (twice)... the next year I wanted to do better (did so by one minute) but still was slower than Oprah, but as I was older, had two kid and didn't have a chef or a personal trainer I felt somewhat vindicated. My husband gently nudged me to find a group if I actually wanted to improve, tried three groups and several more marathons till I got the right combination... knocked more than 50 minutes off my time, got a BQ, finished Boston... discovered along the way that I REALLY like marathons, now I'm working on 50 states...discussed my running with my hubby, who does not run, works out at the gym and has good insights, have to find a way to do marathon without the taper as that makes me crazy...
-Rita

[Ryan]

My first attempt was a DNF.

Well, I wouldn't even focus on the raw number. It was following my weekly mileage number. My max long run was less than 20% of my max weekly mileage. I didn't and still don't look at the 30 miles as all that long really, all things considered. Of course, I also don't put too much stock in the long run. It's just one of many parts of the overall plan.

[Double]

Exactly.

The long run is actually a smaller piece of the pie in the marathon.  For me most successful marathons are building the pace & cruising speed.  Lots of 12 -14 mile runs and the occasional long run.  I like to go into a marathon with pretty good aerobic power before the specific training.  I have always felt weekly miles trump the illussion that the long run is the key weekly workout.  It is important, but every 2-3 weeks is enough for me.

I was able to take my ultra training and then roll of that into faster pace/strength type program and be fairly successful.

[Garboni]

I guess maybe I just thought some people might feel more confident and the muscles perhaps better prepared doing a somewhat long long run before entering a marathon. I mean, having run up to 15 miles might work for a lot of people, but getting up to around 20, not necessarily 25 or 26.2 but around 20 could seem to me more appealing if I were to try a marathon, especially if I want to do more than finish.

[oldcolonial]

My first marathon was the Stephen Talkhouse Marathon in 1982.  A point to point marathon from Montauk NY to Southhampton NY.  It was 40 degrees and sunny with SW winds at 15 - 20 kts (almost a direct headwind) My goal was to finish in sub 3 hours.  I had been training to run for about 6 months.  Before that, I played soccer.  I had also put in 7 100+ mile weeks in before the race.  I showed up to the race overtained nursing what turned out to be a stress fracture.  I DNF'd after 21 miles roughly on pace though 17.  My next marathon was in 1988.  I ran a 2:39.  My goal that time was to finish around that time.  In preparation for the second run, I never went past 20 miles on my long runs or did more than 80 miles in a week.  I did do a couple of "hard" 20 milers in less than 2 hours as part of my preparation.  My training included three quality workouts per 10 day cycle with the rest just being easy filler miles.  Hard runs included; a long run of 18 to 20 miles fairly briskly, one interval session usually 4 - 5 miles of intervals of 800 to 1,600 meters at just sub 5 minute per mile pace with short rest intervals, and one hard 11 mile run.  During the build up I also ran 2 tune up races a 15 K (49 minutes and change, still my PR for the distance) and a 10 miler (57 + minutes, blew up on that one!).

I always considered marathon way outside my best racing range.  In longer races, I have trouble keeping up with fluid losses which has tended to limit my performance as well as discouraged me from doing really long training runs.  On a moderately cool day, I routinely loose more than 2 liters of fluid per hour just running at a moderate pace.  Since I'm not fast either, I always thought that 10 to 15K was my best distance.

[Ryan]

Double, exactly. There is way too much focus on the long run these days, to the detriment of some actually more important factors in marathon training.

Garboni, I understand where you come from but I think the 20 mile long run is almost completely a psychological thing. Not that the mental aspect of training doesn't matter but how much of a difference is there between, for example, a 60 mile per week training plan with an 18 mile long run or a 50 mile per week training plan with a 20 mile long run? I'll take the 60 mile per week plan every time.

One thing to keep in mind, as referenced in this Joe Henderson archive, is the collapse point theory. I'm becoming a bigger fan of this concept all the time. I'm really convinced that running about 60 miles per week (roughly averaging 1/3 of the race distance per day) for an extended period of time would do more for most runners than doing a couple 20 mile long runs.

[Garboni]

Personally, I don't even always focus on the exact number of miles but sometimes on the time spent running. I'm not sure how you feel about this, but I think it might be helpful sometimes.

I'm just imagining me running a marathon some day, and going 20 or 30 minutes longer than I ever have is one thing to me, but if I had to go 60-80 minutes longer I think I might be a bit overwhelmed or intimidated. But I am no expert on the marathon.

[denton]

1) longest around 29-30 miles
2) goal 2:17-2:18
3) result either go out with leaders (2:14-2:15 pace) or run with the 2:20mid guys....went out with leader....at 20miles under 2:16 pace......by end 2:35 and 25 to the finish in 11 mins.........but I didn't (at least IMHO) hit the wall.....
4) If I could go back aagin i would do more of this....fartlek style long runs.....

[Ryan]

Garboni, that's one reason I like the 22-23 mile long run, it's usually right about the amount of time it should take you to complete the marathon. That said, it only works if you have sufficient base. If you don't have the base, it's going to take a lot out of you and affect the rest of your training. Again, the long run is a part of marathon training but only one part.

Denton, I like point 4. Those are some good workouts.

[sueruns]

1. had a time goal (sub 3:10...BQ for open men)....wanted a challenge 'cuz I was going back to 5ks
2. longest run 22....did 22 every weekend.  average week 40-45 mile....

looking back....I'd do about everything different....

[Wilson]

I am way old school. Back then we talked about "respecting the distance." Meaning you didn't want to try a marathon until you were seasoned and ready. No sense in running a 3:00 or 3:08 just to finish, you wanted to be ready to run close to your ability.

I had one and half DNSs at 22 and 23 before running my first at age 25. I overtrained for DNS1 (Paavo Nurmi 1980), going along with my more experience teammate who swore that back to back 20 milers on the same weekend was a great way to train for a marathon. That resulted in my first experience with ITBS.

DNS2 was kind of a half hearted effort--I was going to jump into Grandma's (possibly as a bandit, because it was June already and I think the entry quota had been filled ) because I was living in the neighborhood. Had been running 60s/week through the spring with regular long runs of 12 to 15 miles, and bumped up the long runs to 19 or so. Stress fracture after just a couple of weeks.

At 25 I had matured a lot as a runner and got it right. Did weekly 17 to 20 milers (often ~50% easy, ~50% marathon pace) for about 2 months with no hitches along the way. Knew I was ready race after PRing by a minute for 10K, just two weeks out. Yes, ran for time, and completed the marathon at sub 6 pace at altitude.

[Andrew A.]

Wilson may not post often, but when he does it tends to be gold.  Like denton, he is an E.F. Hutton on this forum. 

[Ryan]

Andrew, agree 100%. As with denton, Wilson doesn't post often but I make sure I read each post he makes at least twice. They are always gems and they always contain fascinating and educational information.

[Wilson]

Thanks for the nice thoughts guys. Now if only I could always live up to the things that I say...last marathon has ended up in disaster.

[Ryan]

Nobody always lives up to expectations. We all stray from even the best laid plans and we all have bad days sometimes. That doesn't reflect on the quality of our knowledge and advice. In fact, those bad experiences can broaden our knowledge if we reflect on them thoughtfully.

Now, get out there and prove our belief in your knowledge right.