Minimal Shoes

[rehammes]

I just visited a running store that I had not yet been to in Walnut Creek.  The woman seemed to have a general distaste for the minimal shoe 'fad.'  "Sorry, we don't sell shoes that are going to hurt our customers."  The most minimal shoe they carried was an NB 758 which still felt like a tank compared to the Kinvaras that I got a couple months ago.  I bought them (on clearance)  because I want to see how much of a difference I notice between them and the Sauconys, Newtons and Speedstars I have worn previously.

[Ryan]

Rob, interesting. So they don't even sell racing flats for...I don't know...people who want to race?

I've heard of stores like this and I've gotten scolded by salespeople for saying I train in racing flats (before they begrudgingly sell me a pair of racing flats). I still say it's fascinating how people on both ends of the spectrum are so dogmatic and unwilling to even consider a middle ground.

[rehammes]

Ryan, no racing flats, but oddly they did sell replacement spikes but not the shoes themselves!?!?    I haven't tried on a variety of shoes in one sitting in a long time, but I had time to kill and they had a pretty good sale so I picked three pair.  5 years ago, I did a lot of training in the Gel Nimbus (4-5 pair) so I gave them a shot and I instantly knew it was entirely too much shoe.  I told my wife that they were a little too cloud-like.  Another customer overheard me and asked, "what could possibly be wrong with that?"  The saleswoman came back with, "some people believe that a cushioned shoe increases the time that your foot is on the ground and so you run slower".  Hmmm, not really how I would explain it, but I told her it's just not the right shoe for me.  Once it cools down a little here today, I'm gonna give the NBs a whirl.  It is definitely more shoe than I have worn in while.

[Ryan]

That's just the kind of thing I don't like coming from either side. The so-called "experts" taking an unthinking view that one of the sides is totally right and those who believe anything different, even those who are somewhere in the middle, are nutcases who don't know what they are talking about.

This kind of philosophy is prevalent throughout our society these days but it's a shame that it's even creeping into the running world. What happened to exploring all viewpoints and considering their merits and deficiencies, even the merits of the viewpoint that you began disagreeing with and the deficiencies of the viewpoint that you held going in? This is how we grow, expand our knowledge, and improve upon what we are doing. By dismissing viewpoints that don't fit in her nice little philosophy, this individual who many will look up to as an expert is just perpetuating a lack of growth in not just her knowledge but also her customers' knowledge.

[Andrew A.]

Quite interesting, related to shoes and foot positioning:
http://www.runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=20120

[Ed]

Very interesting article -thank you for finding and posting this.  Something to think about and give some focus to on the next couple of runs.

[Ryan]

Darn, you beat me to the punch, I was about to post this myself.

Good advice in there, a very thought provoking article.

[Andrew A.]

Performance anomalies in running shoe design: Psychological factors?

[ksrunner]

Whether running in less shoe reduces injury through physical or psychological means isn't really very important to me. If it reduces injury, it is a good thing.

Personally, I think that being aware of one's surroundings is always better. Less shoe provides one with more feedback from the environment and more feedback from the environment can help you to avoid injury.

I think that this is a good general rule for more than just footwear. Most things that insulate us from our environment will cause in increase in injuries or accidents. If I wear a hat with a brim, around the farm, it protects me from the sun, but it also increases my chance of hitting my head on low branches -- and saying words I'd rather my daughter not hear. If I wear an iPod while running, I won't hear that aggressive dog running up behind me. If I am texting while driving down the highway, I am likely to cause an accident.

But, there needs to be a balance. Wear work gloves when carrying wood, but not to thread a needle. Wear hearing protection, eye protection, heavy boots, chaps, and gloves while operating a chainsaw. But, you don't necessarily need a lot of insulation while running. You may need some protection from the running surface even though others do not. If you make changes in your running footwear, either gradually change your footwear or reduce your mileage while you get used to the new footwear. If it is a drastic change in footwear, then there should also be a drastic change in training volume. Perhaps even starting out with walking.

If you're coming back from an injury, that might be a good time to introduce a change. Your training volume will already be down and if you're taking time off from running, you may be able to start the transition with walking.

Steve

[Andrew A.]

Some cc flats in here, 25% off close-out sale prices through the end of today: http://www.runningwarehouse.com/catpagesalecomp.html?ccode=MCOMPSSH&coup=LIQDISC

[ksrunner]

Thanks for the info Andrew. I am looking for some shoes soon, but probably not to buy today. I'm starting to mix in a bit of trail running and I am not sure that cross country flats are going to cut it for training runs on the trails. Last weekend, I got a stone bruise in my arch and it probably won't be recovered before this weekend.

I may end up buying two pairs of shoes -- another pair of cross country flats for my weekday runs to and from work (about 40% gravel, 50% road, and 5% grass) and perhaps a pair of lightweight trail shoes. I'm leaning a bit toward Adidas Adizero XT.

I also have a pair of Reebok Cross country flats that I bought recently to see how much shoe I could get for $10. I have done a couple of runs in them and I think that they might make better trail shoes than the Saucony Shays that I have been using. The sole definitely provides more coverage. I've shelved them for a couple of weeks thinking to save them for winter because they're a lot warmer than the Shays. If I use those for trail running, I might buy another pair of XC flats for my weekday runs to and from work. Then, I might be tempted to buy another pair of Five Fingers. They've come a long way since I bought Classics before they had other models. The Bikila or Trek models are tempting. I would most likely choose Bikilas because I could try them on at my local running store. I was never certain I had the right size when I got the classics. They're a bit snug. It will be nice to be able to try them on.

Steve

[Andrew A.]

I do like the Adizero XT, really good for long trail runs.  Flexible, fairly light, fairly streamlined, good lugs and protection on the sole.  I am told that the next update to the Brooks Cascadia will have a lower profile midsole and that Brooks might have a trail racer in the works.  Give the NB 100 (update of the 790, if you want to try to find the old version in your size on clearance) a look, too.

[Andrew A.]

http://www.runblogger.com/2010/07/what-is-nike-doing-speculating-on-shoe.html

[ksrunner]

Andrew, do you have any knowledge of Inov8 shoes? The X-Talon 212 are another trail shoe that I am considering, but no one sells them around here.

Thanks,

Steve

[Andrew A.]

Only those and only the slightest bit.  I have a pair I got last year in my 'reserve.'  I am fine with the fit and feel of them, just have not done any running in them.  If you can get a line on a discounted pair (like I did) then I would say go for it.  Could make some good winter running shoes, especially with sheet metal screws set into the lugs.