Flexibility and the older runner

[sueruns]

I know there are a few others that have been at this for awhile.   I'm really having trouble running faster, I feel that cardiovascularly, I'm extremely fit.  I'm frustrated because it just seems that I can't make my legs go any faster, and I'm barely breathing.   When I'm on my bike and doing intervals, my heart feels like it will explode.  With running my legs "crap out" before I can get this feeling.
 
I'm working on some flexibility issues, do you think that this is the right direction?? 
 
Supposedly cadence should stay relatively the same as you increase speed, but I seem to float up pretty high..

[Andrew A.]

I would say that hip mobility might be something to work on improving.  There are dynamic drills (not plyos) that you can do for this, I think I have seen them in one of the Jay Johnson videos.  I will see if I can dig up the appropriate one and post it.  Yoga could help with this, too. 

Another thought is that you might want to make sure your blood levels are up to par and correct appropriately if they are not.

[Ryan]

Sue, this is an interesting question. There are so many opinions on flexibility and its relation to performance. All the way from you should be as flexible as possible to tight muscles are more efficient because they act like rubber bands to store and return energy to your stride. However, off the top of my head, I can't recall any argument addressing muscle fatigue like you describe.

It sounds like your issue is your legs not allowing you to run fast more than long. The hip mobility idea Andrew mentioned seems like a good idea no matter what and might help here. However, I'm thinking more of speed development. Do you do short strides of 15 seconds or less, short repeats of 1:00-1:30 or less, or short hill repeats of similar duration? These workouts will make your muscles stronger and more efficient, allowing them to not work as hard at lower intensities.

[Andrew A.]

Here it is.  You might not start with (or ever get to) the level of flexibility and range of motion that Sara Vaughn shows here, but doing this type of routine as a regular staple and starting where you are and focusing on progressing should help quite a bit.

Cannonball Cool-Down from CoachJayJohnson on Vimeo.

[Layne]

I've been doing Brian Dorfman before my morning runs about 5 yrs now.


http://www.briandorfman.com/products/product-detail/58-detail-flexibiltiy-training-dvd




Layne

[Ed]

That seems more like a workout than a cool down - wow!

[Andrew A.]

You could start with half the reps and work up. 

[Ed]

I am going to have to start something like this.  I hit 40 this year.

[Andrew A.]

I have been incorporating the Lunge Matrix before runs (any run, not just workouts or hard runs) and it has made a positive difference in how I feel to start the run and so on (read the comments on this blog post).  Highly recommend it as a starting point for incorporating routines to increase hip activation/mobility, core stability/balance into your training.  It is pretty easy to pick up and goes pretty quickly.

Lunge Warm-Up from CoachJayJohnson on Vimeo.

The Lunge Warm-Up is based on physical therapist Gary Gray's lunge matrix and it's a great way for runners to move through all three planes of motion prior to their run.

[sueruns]

My massage therapist has noted a difference already.  I think I need to make a better effort of opening up my hamstrings.
 
maybe there will be a "scorpion" in my future.......for now......"are you kidding me???"

[Ed]

I am almost afraid I'll tear something if I try to do that Scorpion to hard.

[Wilson]

I know there are a few others that have been at this for awhile.   I'm really having trouble running faster, I feel that cardiovascularly, I'm extremely fit.  I'm frustrated because it just seems that I can't make my legs go any faster, and I'm barely breathing.   When I'm on my bike and doing intervals, my heart feels like it will explode.  With running my legs "crap out" before I can get this feeling.
 
I'm working on some flexibility issues, do you think that this is the right direction?? 
 
Supposedly cadence should stay relatively the same as you increase speed, but I seem to float up pretty high..

How old are you now? As we age we can still be in great shape but max heart rate is a limiting factor. Unfortunately can't hold that 5K or 10K pace like we could, even though we're training just as hard.
 
That said, form drills do help with running efficiency and getting the most out of your stride.

[sueruns]

I know there are a few others that have been at this for awhile.   I'm really having trouble running faster, I feel that cardiovascularly, I'm extremely fit.  I'm frustrated because it just seems that I can't make my legs go any faster, and I'm barely breathing.   When I'm on my bike and doing intervals, my heart feels like it will explode.  With running my legs "crap out" before I can get this feeling.
 
I'm working on some flexibility issues, do you think that this is the right direction?? 
 
Supposedly cadence should stay relatively the same as you increase speed, but I seem to float up pretty high..

How old are you now? As we age we can still be in great shape but max heart rate is a limiting factor. Unfortunately can't hold that 5K or 10K pace like we could, even though we're training just as hard.
 
That said, form drills do help with running efficiency and getting the most out of your stride.

46.   my max heart has always been pretty low at 165.   I didn't do any form of speedwork last year.  I had alot of unexpected time off and really had to focus on running tired rather than fast.  (had an ironman).   I started this year with speedwork on the treadmill.  My cadence was out of control...getting up to 240. 

[Wilson]

For range of motion and getting that snap back into my stride I do drills about once a week. Moderate level.

Slowly build up to 3X or 4X 50 m of high knee lifts, butt kicks, skipping and bounding. It seems to help.
 
For heart rate, lots of tempos and just enough speedwork to get by: like 4 X 400 at mile pace, just once week; and something like 3X 1000 at 5K pace later in the week, or as an alternative a set of 10X to 12X 1 min surges at 5K pace. This undertraining approach allows for being rested enough to go all out in the races.

[Ed]

You might think about ending the "undertraining" and train your best - then taper just right to be fully rested and ready for race day.

[corina]

Hey Sue,
Be ultra careful with the speedwork on the treadmill.  The doc I'm seeing thinks my hamstring avulsion may in part be due to that. I guess your foot plant is more forward on the tm, and your body compensates for that and the bringing it back with the next stride. My weakest link in the hip area appears to be my hamstring insertion site, so that took a beating this last training cycle (I had a lot of speed this time around getting ready for Boston).  Even though my right was the injury complaint side, I had signal and a tear on my left as well per the MRI.

[r-at-work]

 
46.   my max heart has always been pretty low at 165.   I didn't do any form of speedwork last year.  I had alot of unexpected time off and really had to focus on running tired rather than fast.  (had an ironman).   I started this year with speedwork on the treadmill.  My cadence was out of control...getting up to 240.

at 46 I think you still have time to improve... range of motion may be part of the solution
not sure treadmill running is the easiest way to do it (for the reason corina mentions and others)
but the cadence number shocks me...are you counting each footfall per minute? I count each time my left foot hits the ground (I get about 90-92 which would only be tops of 184)...
 
the massage therapist who worked on me during my track work (pre BQ/Boston) was the first to explain that because of a tight hip I was basically running sideways....She fixed that...the coaches helped me to LEARN how to run faster... that sounds pretty basic but for me it was what I needed. Besides various sets of interval training on the track they added hill repeats... I think the track work RUNNING WITH OTHERS and the hill repeats really worked, and I don't think I could have done it on a treadmill (especially the down hill running)
 
doesn't happen overnight, I think the older you are the slower the process, I was 50 and it took about a year to do what I wanted. Iwent from a 10:30 marathon pace (that I could hold till 20) to a 9:22 pace and I built enough endurance to hold it till 26.2...
 
staying healthy and finding time is so much of the equation
-Rita
 

[Andrew A.]

There is also a range beyond necessary range of motion, excess flexibility.  I know, it just gets more complicated. 
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:32_yZaO5sS4J:coaching.uka.org.uk/video/drew-harrison-athletic-stiffness-presentation/+athletic+stiffness+presentation+uka+coaching&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[Andrew A.]

Dynamic stretches: http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=21592

[Andrew A.]

More from Jay Johnson: http://www.runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=23764

[oldcolonial]

I know there are a few others that have been at this for awhile.   I'm really having trouble running faster, I feel that cardiovascularly, I'm extremely fit.  I'm frustrated because it just seems that I can't make my legs go any faster, and I'm barely breathing.   When I'm on my bike and doing intervals, my heart feels like it will explode.  With running my legs "crap out" before I can get this feeling.
 
I'm working on some flexibility issues, do you think that this is the right direction?? 
 
Supposedly cadence should stay relatively the same as you increase speed, but I seem to float up pretty high..

Interesting thing about running faster is that it is all about increasing stride length while maintaining the same cadence.  I am sure you can improve just barely incrementally by improving flexibility but to see real improvements in speed you will need to increase the amount of power you put out.  To do this, you need to practice running fast as well as having a well conditioned heart / lung machine.    This starts simply by practicing running fast.  In order to practice running fast you first need to learn how.   A nice sample work out for this purpose includes the following elements:
12 - 15 min jogging warm up, maybe some stretching if you feel like it.
3 to 5 times 60 to 80 meters running quickly, under control, good form and accelerating through the distance.  Full rest between intervals, do not time the intense or rest interval.
Assorted bounding and stride drills.
5 - 7 times 60 to 80 meters running quickly, under control, good form and accelerating through the distance.  Full rest between intervals, do not time the intense or rest interval.
2 - 4 times 400 meters at 1,500 meter race pace, full rest between intervals. Keep track of your times for these and watch them improve as the weeks progress. I would expect that after you have done the workout a few times you will have no trouble getting your legs going and you will most definitely be breathing heavily at the end of each interval.
12 - 15 min jogging cool down
This will be a hard work out if you have not run fast before, come into it relatively fresh and have an easy running day afterward. 

[Andrew A.]

Perhaps something like this? 

[Andrew A.]

More good stuff from Jay Johnson: http://www.coachjayjohnson.com/2011/11/running-times-article-give-me-15-minutes/

[ksrunner]

I really like this and I think that it would be helpful, but I have a hard time giving up those 15 minutes!

How much time are people putting in doing non-running exercises before or after running?

I am beginning to incorporate lunges before my runs and now do that before about half of my runs. Right now, I am just doing the forward lunges and will incorporate other directions when those are easy.

I've also been doing some of those 100-ups that I've read about, but I am doing those before bed -- not before or after running.