Should I still run Mystic?

[U Ben Hadd]

...it was obvious that Dan stated that I claimed to be all knowing. Of course, when I asked him to reference where I made that claim, I got no response.

Yeah and I wrote... "Usually people that are "all knowing" don't come out and state that claim themselves. It's usually an impression other people get by their actions."  

Just because you don't come out and say "I know it all" doesn't mean that others can't perceive you to be that way. Things like "Trust me, I'm watching the use of everything out there. I'm lucky enough to have a bit of an inside track..." are good indicators.

Whatsa matter with yer eyes, son?  You seem like a sharp enough feller, so I can't figger out why you're actin' so dang slow.  Just read the goddam quote yourself!

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:38 am
When someone so blatantly disregards a training tool as being not needed yet claims to be all knowing, that is not good information.

You've been following this stuff like the rest of us, right?  Who d'ya think is the "someone" that Dan can't seem to find the balls to call out by name and comes right out and says that this "someone" has claimed to be all knowing?

Oh, and I meant to say "ratio" where I typed "percentages", I got confused and fucked up there.  

Woody and Dan sure as hell ain't above hack status, ditto fer a feller with a 1:10 half-marathon PR.  If you're an open man and you can't beat the best gals, or even the best schoolgirls, in your country then yer a hack at best.  You don't gotta run a 1:04 half to have a decent inkling of where a 1:10 half PR or slower puts you in the sport, you just gotta be a tiny bit blessed between the ears.  And that's coming from another hack and a confirmed idiot.

[Anonymous]

Magpie at his best or should we say Wong Fei Hung :lol:

[GTF]

While I recently changed my login from Wong Fei-Hung to this one, and did not post on this forum under any other name previously, I always post under a registered name -- a consistent one until the recent change, which will also be consistent from here on out -- and do not post anonymously, that is for the likes of you, a gutless, petty one who is completely mistaken and clearly has nothing of substance to contribute.  This is my second and hopefully final post on this tragic thread.  I do not know who you are, nor would I care to -- if you cannot lay it on the line and face the heat here then you never could when it truly counts.

[Adam]

It doesn't get much more self-evident, you talked the talk but couldn't walk the walk.  

While I don't plan on wearing a HRM during a race anytime soon, this is the argument that doesn't make any sense to me.

Dan wore a HRM and missed his goal by like a minute.  Ryan ran by feel (and ignored all the "feelings" his body was sending him) and DNF'd.  Yet somehow Dan can't walk the walk.

I know this is Ryan's site and he's a good guy, but why not rip on "Mr. I run by feel" since it seems he had a far worse performance on race day?

Well, it didn't make sense to me to make the claim that he could predict his performance within two minutes and then not follow through.  See, I don't see it as being about who came closest to the goal, I'm not going to play around with trying to soft sell things.  Bottom line is that they both failed to meet their stated objectives, neither one walked the walk, and like Devil's advocate I did notice that Dan did include built-in excuses.  That's not a rip, it's just the facts.  The why was explained in the first part of the post.  Ryan came forward and laid out what he thought went wrong, that ground has already been trod, and unlike Dan he didn't wait until he was called out to face the music.  Ryan has his own issues and doesn't seem to have a major problem with honest criticism.  What he ends up doing with the criticism is up to him.  It also took Dan only a matter of weeks to find it in himself to be contrite, after he saw negative repercussions for himself.  
I don't think any of that matters now, because what I've read in the posts, like yours, that have come since mine has been educational.  I can see now that you're right, it does no good to ask hard questions to either one, honest and introspective answers are not going to come, they have to (hopefully) learn their lessons out on the road.  It seems like after 10+ years of being in the game that Dan doesn't have a handle on how to correctly develop the most important system he'd need in a race like the marathon (something you pointed out), faults his genetics, and then thinks Boston has good odds of being a PR course.  Dan not only relishes a challenge, he seems to like to stack the cards against himself.  I'm not sure what that means, but I do have my theories.  I also didn't know about Dan's injury previously because I didn't see anything about it on here.  This was a lesson for me, I should have just stayed in lurk mode.  I'll be watching because on a certain level it'll be interesting to see how these things play out.  No hard feelings to anyone and I wish these two and you and everyone else who visits here the best and hope they figure out how to accomplish their running goals.

Run well.

Adam

[Zeke]

Well, it didn't make sense to me to make the claim that he could predict his performance within two minutes...

Yea, I thought he was a little adamant about that prediction.  If I remember correctly, awhile ago, he thought he could predict his marathon time to within 1 minute using a HRM.  For me, too much can happen between 0 and 26.2 to think I can set a goal within within 2.3 seconds per mile of my actual time.

This was a lesson for me, I should have just stayed in lurk mode.  

Why is that?  It'd be nice if we had more lurking "come out" and throw in their 2 cents.  It wouldn't be much of a message board if everyone lurked.

[Double]

Boston is a PR course.  It has a fairly big net downhill.  My fastest marathon is on that course.

[pski]

Hey Dave, I got back on line to argue with ya!!  I only think Boston is a PR course if you either have sledgehammer quads like you do have, or train to pound the living hell out of yourself so you can move the last 5 miles :wink:
Having saw the Lakefront in which Ryan ran I can only say, conditions were brutal for a one way course.  No one predicts time there, they just survive or die.  to Ryan's credit he went for it, balls in hand and failed gloriously.  
My coaching attempt really went south,  Krischbaum DNF.  Walz DNF, Kooch couldn't be motivated to train through though he really tried and hit the injury bug and other bums in the road, but scrambled on his own to mop up train and run a 3:05.   Cameron ran with balls in hand in those conditions, PR pace 1:29 to the half before fading to a still BQ of 3:09.
DD is a US national team rep for ULTRARUNNING.  He'd figure out 26>2 in a hurricane, and even he was almost 7 minutes off PR!  

Walz and Kirschbaum were kind of bit by my own mistake, you train for a certain time and want to say the hell with it, I'm running for time, what do us HACKS have to lose.  Nothing but a little foolish pride.

Now it's my turn, my last HACK at a marathon, NYC, Nov 7th.  It's always been my goal to break 2:50, fairly modest according to some of you running kings.  I'm not conderned about conditions here, there's no turning back, I know if conditions are good, I can do it, if not I will risk it all to the crash and burn trying to do it anyway.  My family will still love me at the finish line.  God will know I gave my best on the training I did.  My friends will know I used up what I had and left it all out there.  

All I do know is the last mile will be as close to death without going there that I can possibly get.  Rock On.  PSKI

[Zeke]

My coaching attempt really went south,  Krischbaum DNF.  Walz DNF, Kooch ...scrambled on his own to mop up train and run a 3:05.   Cameron ran...a BQ of 3:09.

Who would've guessed that Kooch would have the best race out of that group?  

Have a great race in NYC.  Looking forward to hearing how it goes.

[Ryan]

Walz and Kirschbaum were kind of bit by my own mistake, you train for a certain time and want to say the hell with it, I'm running for time, what do us HACKS have to lose.  Nothing but a little foolish pride.

This was actually the root of my problems, also. The moment I left Double was the moment I decided to time trial it instead of racing it. I wanted sub-2:40 when the conditions didn't seem so bad, I went for PR or bust when the conditions worsened. In the end, I burned myself by going after something that was just not going to happen on that day. Walz and Kirschbaum were not alone out there in not making the wise decision to adjust to the conditions. It's actually kind of ironic that I did so well two years ago by making the correct decision to adjust when others made the rookie mistake of not adjusting but, with more experience under my belt, I was the one making the rookie mistake this time around.

Have a good one in New York. I know you'll be making better decisions on the course than some of us did at Lakefront.