Author Topic: "The Most Terrifying Video You'll Ever See."  (Read 3700 times)

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Offline Andrew A.

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"The Most Terrifying Video You'll Ever See."
« on: January 31, 2010, 12:55:20 PM »


And, the follow-up, "How It All Ends" (Climate Change: Risk Managment):
Why dink around? Go for it, be the best. It is worth whatever risk there is even if you fall short. You will be better.
‎"There is no such thing as an overachiever. We are all underachievers to varying degrees." - John Wooden.

Offline Andrew A.

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Why dink around? Go for it, be the best. It is worth whatever risk there is even if you fall short. You will be better.
‎"There is no such thing as an overachiever. We are all underachievers to varying degrees." - John Wooden.

Offline Ed

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Re: "The Most Terrifying Video You'll Ever See."
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2010, 07:36:45 AM »
I do not doubt the Earth's average temperature is rising and I do not doubt that human activity is enhancing the rise.  However, what has been the average temperature swing of the earth over the last 1.5 million years?

Our recorded history of atmospheric data is such a tiny snapshot in Earth's history that we can only guess to what degree human activity is actually effecting the global changes.  We may be giving ourselves too much credit for the ability to affect the Earth - and then again - we may be underestimating our ability to affect the Earth.

I say we play it safe (and smart) and protect the precious resource that our planet is to us.  This has to start with each and every one of us as individuals and to pass it on to our children and grandchildren.  As we rise through the ranks of our companies and businesses, we can help bring about more green concepts in our companies and change our corporate cultures to that of protecting the Earth.
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Offline Ryan

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Re: "The Most Terrifying Video You'll Ever See."
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2010, 08:09:09 AM »
Ed, I think you hit on one point I think about. There is still a lot of unknown out there. However, think of the big picture. Take the best case scenario and the worst case scenario. Which one do you want to plan for? I'd like to hope for the best while planning for (planning to prevent) the worst. Even if we say there's an economic cost to cutting emissions, what is the economic cost of doing nothing if some of these not even worst case scenarios play out?

Another thought and an angle I think should be argued. Even if a person doesn't believe that global warming is happening, even if a person doesn't believe that human activity is at least partly the cause, I don't know of many people at all who don't agree that pollution is a health hazard. We know it triggers, if not causes, asthma. We know it is a risk factor for various forms of cancer. These are the big two but there are many other health risks out there. What about the human and economic costs of these health hazards? Again, while cleaning up may be a drag on the economy to some extent, how much of a drag on our economy in added health costs is not cleaning up? Of course, the issue goes well beyond financials and into human lives but the number one argument I see against cleaning up is the economic cost and the thing I always see missing from the debate is a comparison to the economic cost of not cleaning up. Even if it were just lives vs. money, I know which I'd prefer to prioritize but it's not just lives vs. money. There are economic costs to not doing anything, just as there are economic costs to doing something.

Offline Andrew A.

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Re: "The Most Terrifying Video You'll Ever See."
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2010, 09:39:54 AM »
Our recorded history of atmospheric data is such a tiny snapshot in Earth's history that we can only guess to what degree human activity is actually effecting the global changes.
NCAR is headquartered where I live (there is a sizable NOAA facility here, too) and I have been up there to tour the facility a couple of times.  They have atmospheric data going far back before the existence of humans on the planet, hundreds of thousands of years ago.  It is fairly clear how the climate tended to cycle long before human existence.
Why dink around? Go for it, be the best. It is worth whatever risk there is even if you fall short. You will be better.
‎"There is no such thing as an overachiever. We are all underachievers to varying degrees." - John Wooden.

Offline Ed

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Re: "The Most Terrifying Video You'll Ever See."
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2010, 11:30:00 AM »
Their data is an educated guess and not true measured data.  The science is strong but not as strong as having actually measured the temperatures and written them down.  How did they measure the temperatures during the Pleistocene age or the Paleozoic era?

What was the average temperature of the Earth during the last ice age?  What triggered the last ice age?  A general warming of the Earth which melted polar ice which in turn cooled the oceans which then cooled the overall Earth's temperature allowing the glaciers to grow.

There is a very slow cycle of warming and cooling that the Earth's surface and atmosphere goes through that takes approximately 120,000 years.  Where are we in that cycle - I know we are speeding that cycle up a bit.

I am more concerned about our pollution effects on the overall health of humans.  Animal species come and go and have done so for the entire history of the Earth.  For us to try to save a species messes with natural selection.  Unless of course, it is our interference that caused the endangerment - then we need to correct that situation. 
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Offline Andrew A.

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Re: "The Most Terrifying Video You'll Ever See."
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2010, 01:59:56 PM »
It is far from a "guess," it is found via ice core samples (and tree rings) all over the world.  A thermometer is not needed when there is other clear evidence of temperature cycles and carbon levels in the atmosphere.  It is through these methods that they have been able to come up with what you reference in quotes below in the first place.

"What was the average temperature of the Earth during the last ice age?  What triggered the last ice age?  A general warming of the Earth which melted polar ice which in turn cooled the oceans which then cooled the overall Earth's temperature allowing the glaciers to grow."
How can you know, was there a team of scientists there to measure it with thermometers? ;)

"There is a very slow cycle of warming and cooling that the Earth's surface and atmosphere goes through that takes approximately 120,000 years.  Where are we in that cycle - I know we are speeding that cycle up a bit."
Again, how can you or anyone else know any of that with certainty?  Or is it just another "educated guess?" ;)
Why dink around? Go for it, be the best. It is worth whatever risk there is even if you fall short. You will be better.
‎"There is no such thing as an overachiever. We are all underachievers to varying degrees." - John Wooden.

Offline Andrew A.

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Re: "The Most Terrifying Video You'll Ever See."
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2010, 11:05:59 AM »
Government agencies not run by politicians are undertaking risk management:
http://www.truthout.org/from-annals-sno-cone-science56877
Why dink around? Go for it, be the best. It is worth whatever risk there is even if you fall short. You will be better.
‎"There is no such thing as an overachiever. We are all underachievers to varying degrees." - John Wooden.

Offline Ed

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Re: "The Most Terrifying Video You'll Ever See."
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2010, 01:53:48 PM »
Again -

None of the climate change or global warming experts/ scientists have addressed the issue of the planet's natural warming and cooling cycle, where we are in that cycle or the rate that the current cycle is occuring faster than the last 2 or 3 cycles.

I do not deny that we are creating a deletarious issue for the planet and especially our own health.  However, I do need to mention that many of the outspoken political figures are getting rich as more and more people go green while the outspoken political figures leave larger carbon footprints than ten average American families.
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Offline Andrew A.

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Re: "The Most Terrifying Video You'll Ever See."
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2010, 12:20:36 PM »
Again -

None of the climate change or global warming experts/ scientists have addressed the issue of the planet's natural warming and cooling cycle, where we are in that cycle or the rate that the current cycle is occuring faster than the last 2 or 3 cycles.
Not sure where you are getting this information, but based on all that I have seen and heard (especially on my visits to NCAR plus via the NOAA link above) they have addressed it.
Why dink around? Go for it, be the best. It is worth whatever risk there is even if you fall short. You will be better.
‎"There is no such thing as an overachiever. We are all underachievers to varying degrees." - John Wooden.

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