Re: Benefits of running a long run slow

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#14131

Ryan
Keymaster
danm wrote:
Tell that to Lance Armstrong.

It is all about science. He has trained purely by LT methods using all the available scientific methods there are, including using an HRM on every ride. He will win a 6th Tour.

Anyone who really knows about running and/or cycling knows that, while these both are endurance sports, training for them is apples and oranges.

danm wrote:
This is 2004 not 1964. If Lydiard had those tools perhaps he would have had even more success.

You can speculate that. I will speculate that he would have had no more success.

danm wrote:
You have no idea the scientific methods of the coaches you mention. You only know what you read in the press. I do not claim to know their methods either.

So we should assume that they, as well as those who have followed them, are lying?

danm wrote:
I do know that when you get to the top of a sport, science plays a huge role. When I was on the National Speed Skating team (top 12 in the country) and was trained at facilities such as the Olympic Training centers in Co. Springs, Lake Placid and Northern Michigan Univ. I was subjected to every sort of scientific test there was at the time. It is still that way. That is why the Americans are the most decorated Winter Olympic athletes vs every other winter sport combined! A sport where we have 200 competitors beating countries who have 1000’s.

I never claimed that the application of science isn’t important. Elite runners have a team of people working for them, including massage therapists, nutritionists, and others. However, you don’t see anyone pricking their fingers and you don’t see them wearing HRMs.

danm wrote:
If you had two control groups and you trained them as follows, you tell me which group you would want to be a part of.

Group 1. We are going to train you using only the tools of Lydiard. We will go by feel and effort, run a few races then enter you in a marathon and see if we can figure out (predict) how you will do.

Group 2. We are going to train you using the methods of Lydiard but before we do, we are going to subject everyone to the entire gamut of scientific testing we know about. We will get max HR readings, Submersion tank body fat testing, lung capacity, V02 max tests, Conconi tests, muscle biopsies. We will monitor your training by taking periodic blood samples to measure the acidosis in your blood, we will also use heart rate monitors and adjust pacing based on the biofeedback we get from all tests. We will perform numerous stress tests and get unbiased measurments throughout the training cycles. We will also run a few races. In the end we should know precisely how you will perform to within a minute of your final time, all things being equal.

Now I am not claiming one group will necessarily beat the other, but group 2 will know more about what to expect come race day. Please don’t insult me or anyone else by claiming this not to be true.

Please don’t insult me or anyone else by telling me what to state as truth. The truth is this test has been done. It’s called Nike’s Oregon Project. They hand picked America’s brightest running prospects. The results speak for themselves. Dan Browne is the only one who lived up to expectations in the marathon. Browne is the only one who even qualified for the Olympic Trials, although every one of them was capable of this when the group was formed. I consider Chad Johnson a good friend but I doubt that their HRM usage and all their other technology would have predicted his 2:25 at NYCM. Hanneck and Donnelly have virtually disappeared from the scene. Meanwhile, Browne, at best, has maintained the progression curve he was following before using all the technology.

Meanwhile, I’m looking through the website of the Hansons group, one that has outperformed the Oregon Project with less talent. I see no reference anywhere of HRMs or LT testing. The most technology I see referenced are shoes and watches.

Forget about cycling and speed skating, sports that have shown no direct application to distance running. Here we have direct application of technology in the sport of discussion and the results speak volumes.