10k Training

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This topic contains 17 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  Peter 12 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #5265

    Peter
    Member

    OK, I know better than to say “I have a 10K coming up in 4 weeks, what should I do to ensure that I run a PR?”  😛

    But I am running a 10K in on July 4, and I'd like to at least approach last year's masters PR of 37:10. Problem is, I'm pretty sure I'm not in as good of shape as last year. I've run a total of one 10 mile or more run since Thanksgiving, and done little or no speedwork. I did do a LT/Tempo workout on Saturday, where I ran a 10k in about 39:20.

    To make matters worse, on Friday we're going to Mexico for a week on a family vacation. I'm pretty sure that I can run some while I'm there, but with the weather conditions and location, it probably won't be a lot.

    I plan on running 6-7 miles every day before and after the trip. I'll check my fitness after we get back by running a 5 mile fast run 9-10 days before the race.

    So, if anyone has words of wisdom, please advise. Otherwise, I'm not obsessed with running a PR, just doing the best I can. After an inconsistent 7 months of training post marathon, I'd be happy with a 38:00.

    Oh, and I'll happily have a drink for all of you at the beach resort we're staying at. Vamanos!

  • #20788

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    I'd probably try to work in some strides about twice a week and maybe a tempo run once a week. While in Mexico, I'd just say get out and run as much as you can. Building up a long run would be helpful but you're working on limited time.

    You know the drill. You're working on limited time, there's not much you can do at this point. Just do what you can, understand that miracles most likely won't happen, and set a realistic goal for your 10k. Enjoy Mexico and best wishes for your race.

  • #20789

    Zeke
    Member

    Peter, here's the kick in the pants you need.  You've run one 10 miler in the last 7 months, you're coming off a 102 MONTH, you've “done little or no speedwork,” yet you're still talking about sub-38. 

    The way I see it, you have tons of potential and you should be “worried” about getting consistent and developing some long-term goals.  Hell, you could be running sub-35 and sub-2:50.  But you can't force others to be motivated, they have to find it themselves.

    Enjoy you trip. 

  • #20790

    Peter
    Member

    The way I see it, you have tons of potential and you should be “worried” about getting consistent and developing some long-term goals.  Hell, you could be running sub-35 and sub-2:50.  But you can't force others to be motivated, they have to find it themselves.

    I knew I could count on you Chad (btw, that 10 miler was run with a guy I know in Minnesota ::) )
    It seems like I run crappy the year following marathons. 2004 was pretty poor, and 2006 is equally as inconsistent. Believe me, I want to find the consistency, and then see how well I can really run. I also know not to force things. Last year, my success was due primarily to being able to get out and run 60+ minutes nearly every day from March to October. I need to get back to that point.

    As for long term goals, I'm not sure how many years of improvement I've got. Figure six or so. Sub 35 and 2:50 are in fact two goals I do have. This race on the 4th is not that important, and I only posted it as a minor joke b/c Ryan and I used to see posts like this all the time on RWOL. Heck, if I could run 38:00 off the training I've done, I can only imagine how well I could do with a solid foundation of miles and some real training…

    Thanks for the $.02, I will deposit it and make use of it, I promise!

  • #20791

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Peter, the number of years of improvement you have, as well as how much you improve in those years, fully depend on how you handle your running during those years. You could nickel and dime things out, making slow but steady improvements, and maybe improve for a decade or more and end up peaking at around 36 minutes. You could really throw yourself into it starting right now and maybe improve for 5 or so years to the point you're at 34 minutes 5 years from now, then falling back to 35 or 36 minutes 10-15 years from now. You could do something in the middle, which would produce results somewhere in the middle.

    The bottom line is Zeke is right, I see a lot of untapped potential in you. Of course, only you can decide how far you want to take that potential and how you want to get there. I'd love to see you really go after things and see how far you can get because I see that potential in you. However, I am obviously not the one to make that decision. You have to decide if the potential results, remembering that nothing is guaranteed, would be worth the effort.

  • #20792

    Chris
    Member

    In my opinion the most important quality session you can do for 10K training is the LONG tempo run.  A 10K race is basically a long threshold run so in my opinion you are stressing your body very specifically for the 10K by doing the long tempo runs.  I'd say some workouts at maybe 5K race pace are also important as well as long runs. 

    In my opinion the 10K is the most difficult of all road distances.  I find the 5K short enough, and anything over 10K slow enough.  10K is fast and long and gut searing. 

  • #20793

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Actually, I picture the 10k as more of an overthreshold run. Your lactate threshold pace is the pace you could hold for about 60 minutes, so for most people a 10k is actually running above your lactate threshold.

    Because of that, I like what Daniels terms cruise intervals for the 10k except I like doing them a bit faster than Daniels suggests. Doing 4-6 mile repeats at about 10k pace with short recoveries is a heck of a workout that is very specific to the 10k.

    Of course, there is no “most important” workout if you're looking for optimal performance. You have to cover all your bases. Given Peter's short timeframe, he already understands this can't be done. The quickest way to improve is through short, fast repeats because you can improve your efficiency pretty quickly with these. Other workouts take more long term physiological changes before benefits can be gained. That said, Peter still does have a bit of time before the window is closed on those workouts, which is why I think an occasional tempo run could help some.

  • #20794

    Anne
    Member

    Here's an article about 10K training I had saved under favorites, it compares two types of training. Just FYI in anyone is interested.

    http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0004.htm

    Have a great time in Mexico.

  • #20795

    Chris
    Member

    Anne, I've read something like that before regarding how superior Interval training was in a particular group.  I personally train a ton of intervals.  The reason for my post above was a result of my past training.  I feel stronger with a good base of long threshold workouts than without.  I probably should have mentioned that during my racing season and just before I basically do an interval workout every single week.  That is usually supplemented with either a repetition (mile race pace) or threshold workout. 

    So to clear myself up ::) I'd prefer the tougher threshold stuff earlier in the season and then switch to more interval training (and I still do some long threshold late).  I personally love the intervals.  I probably should have stated threshold more for preparing for a 10K season of training. 

  • #20796

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Chris, you just pointed out a key point there. In the short term, right before a goal race, you want to do intervals. However, a well rounded program will be more than 10 weeks long and will include focus on all aspects of training.

    In a way, it surprises me that a Lydiard pupil like Snell would fall victim to the usual study trap of looking only at the short term period of 2-3 months. In a way, it doesn't because, when working within the academic world, everything has to fit nicely into a semester no matter what you believe or understand. In the short term, especially if you're not going to go for a balanced approach, intervals are going to result in the biggest gain. Maybe that's a lesson that Peter could use in this situation, although his timeframe is even shorter. However, to extrapolate the results of such a study to anything more than what should be done in the final 2-3 months before a goal race is risky and to extrapolate the results of a study that looks at the two extremes without consideration of a balanced approach is even more risky. Not that I see this being done here (at least yet) but this is what I see people trying to do all the time.

    I like the workouts listed at the end of the article, though. All are very good workouts when worked properly into a complete training plan.

  • #20797

    GTF
    Member

    Yes, pacework would of course be no less important than any other workout.

  • #20798

    Anonymous

    1) ….hills….45 sec approx around 25 mins of them one week and a 'monfartlek' the other (2 x 90sec hard-4 x 60sec -4 x 30sec – 15 x 15 sec off same recovery time egs 90sec hard-90sec med-90sec hard-90sec med…. but keep the recovery at somehwere btween tempo pace and off ay recovery pace)….
    2) the other mention would be what i term fartlek/interval tempos of 3mins hard-2min med for 25 mins once per week but the first week make the 2mins quicker then the next week a little slower and 2 weeks out make the recoveries at off day run pace…your last week is a rest week so back off….

  • #20799

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Denton, a couple of interesting workouts there. I could see some benefit in each, even with Peter's short timeframe. It might be interesting if Peter could give this a shot to see how things turn out.

    If nobody minds my asking, I've noticed a few “new/old” (new to certain Hillrunner.com visitors I'm sure but old to myself and probably a few others) names popping in over the past day or two. May I ask to what I owe the honor of seeing these highly respected (by me, at least) individuals all showing up all at once? I hope those who I've seen recently decide to stick around, it would be a great benefit to the site and its visitors.

  • #20800

    Wilson
    Member

    Denton, a couple of interesting workouts there. I could see some benefit in each, even with Peter's short timeframe. It might be interesting if Peter could give this a shot to see how things turn out.

    If nobody minds my asking, I've noticed a few “new/old” (new to certain Hillrunner.com visitors I'm sure but old to myself and probably a few others) names popping in over the past day or two. May I ask to what I owe the honor of seeing these highly respected (by me, at least) individuals all showing up all at once? I hope those who I've seen recently decide to stick around, it would be a great benefit to the site and its visitors.

    Hi Ryan, maybe it's just timing plus I think your site is developing into one of the few places where there is consistently intelligent discussion about running. I've posted here a few times over the past few years, but spent most of my time at the Donnybrook. Have been kind of homeless since that was shut down. We've survived okay at the pseudobrook, but we're dwindling. Your new software (maybe you've had it for a few months…) seems good. The old stuff reminded me too much of Merv! Keep up the good work, you've done well here.

  • #20801

    Slugworth
    Member

    Hi Peter.  I haven't logged in on this site in a long time, and I wanted to see if I still had an account here.  Obviously, I do. [edit]  Well this has me as a newbie, so obviously I did not.

    Nothing to add to your issue other than to say that, if you want to run 37:10 on the 4th you should probably average just a little under a 6 minute pace that day  ;D

    See you in a few weeks.

    – john

  • #20802

    sfrunnerdude
    Member

    Ryan, not sure if I'm one of the respected who recently joined or not but my reasoning is pretty simple.  I've lurked for a while and found good discussion here that is constructive and critical at the same time.  I've taken a leap in my training and approach to running over the past 12-18 months in that its become a much more serious and integral part of my life.  Combining that with the constant crashing of the RW Forum and the constant people creating trolls of my username and mocking me for running as much as I do, it was a no brainer to come here.

    You're providing a superior forum and superior content.

  • #20803

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    …and the constant people creating trolls of my username and mocking me for running as much as I do…

    Not to take this too far off topic but that sure sounds familiar. People over there must really be insecure about themselves. Whenever someone who threatens the little bubble they exist in comes along, the attack dogs come out.

    Well, I'm glad everyone who is new to the forums finds them so good. I do what I can with the hope that they can at least be adequate for what people are looking for. Of course, beyond the technical end, the people who post are the ones who make any forum what it is.

  • #20804

    Anonymous

    ….just lurking from time to time…saw the post..replied…nothing more…nothing less….reason for the sessions is they work well into a nice 3 weeks without drastically altering the intensity (ie quick recoveries make them more a little more tempo than pure intervals and the monofartlek also does the same, but works on mechanics as well)….go good for 2 1/2 weeks ..back off for about 10 days and a decent 10km should follow….

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