2008 Marathon Trials Qualifying Standards

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This topic contains 27 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  Doc Cole 14 years ago.

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  • #2289

    Anonymous

    Better start training!

    Qualifying window: January 1, 2006 – [30 days prior to the Selection Race] or October 2, 2005

    Event – Men’s Marathon

    “A” – 2:20:00

    “B” – 2:22:00

    Qualifying Guidelines

    – The qualifying mark must be made in a race on a certified course recognized by USA Track & Field or a member federation of the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF).

    – The qualifying standards must be met from January 1, 2006 through [30 days prior to the Selection Race] or at the 2005 USA Marathon Championships (October 2, 2005).

    – All qualifying performances are subject to verification.

    – “Gun” time is the only acceptable method of timing. Chip/net times cannot be used for qualifying.

    – Athletes must meet the “B” standard in order to enter the Selection Race.

    An athlete is eligible for automatic qualification into the Selection Race if that athlete has, during the year 2008, or during the four previous calendar years (2004, 2005, 2006, 2007), accomplished one of the following:

    – Earned an individual medal in an Olympic Games or in an IAAF World Championships Marathon

    – Won an individual USA Marathon Championship

    – Won a U.S. Olympic Team Trials – Men’s Marathon event

    – In addition, automatic qualification into the 2008 U.S. Olympic Men’s Marathon Team Selection Race will be provided to those athletes who were members of a past U.S. Men’s Olympic Marathon Team.

  • #17919

    Zeke
    Member

    Event – Women’s Marathon

    “A” – 2:39:00

    “B” – 2:47:00

  • #17920

    Anonymous

    What’s with the 8 min difference between the women’s A & B standards. Anyone know?

  • #17921

    Zeke
    Member
    Pedro wrote:
    What’s with the 8 min difference between the women’s A & B standards. Anyone know?

    I’m not positive, but my guess is that it relates to the number of men and women who’ve achieved those standards in the past. Some sort of historical analysis to make sure that they have a similar amount of men and women qualifying for the Trials.

  • #17922

    Anonymous

    Interesting. It just seems like it is relatively much easier for women to qualify. There just must be less interest on the part of women to go after this goal.

  • #17923

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Also note that the women’s A qualifier is relatively easier than the men’s A qualifier.

    My understanding of the situation is along the line of what Zeke stated. While slightly more women than men have been getting in recently, in general, the numbers are set up to allow roughly the same number into each race. The claim I have heard as to why it takes relatively easier times to get the same number of women as men is because the women’s event is still on the upswing. While there are individuals like Paula Radcliffe pushing the limits to where they should be, it is taking time for the second-tier athletes to fill in behind those individuals, which means fewer people running within a given percentage of those efforts.

    Of course, the thing to remember about something that is relatively easier is that it’s all relative. I would argue that none of the standards are “easy”.

    Man, I have a long way to go and not much time to get there. If I’m serious about this thing, I better get serious about the training.

  • #17924

    Anonymous

    It is time today not in 3 years If you are serious you will live each day with only one thought breaking 2:30 this fall at Lakefrount. (Ryan If you reach this goal dinners on me) 😉 Eddie Martini’s

    Kooch

  • #17925

    JCWrs
    Member

    Well let’s see…if I train my butt off, everything goes right, and I run a spectacular race whenever I decide to run a marathon in this window I MIGHT get the B Standard…for the women! Oh well, guess I’ll still plan on 2012…that too may be a pipe dream, but at least its possible. Back to training! Good luck Ryan (and any others going for it this time around)!

  • #17926

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Kooch, thanks but my plans are set. First, no Lakefront for me this fall. I’m sick of battling headwinds there. Second, my goal is 2007, not the fall of 2005. If I run a marathon this fall, I don’t know what the time will be but I’d rather run 2:35 and set myself up for 2006 and 2007 than run 2:30 and be less well prepared for the key years.

    Think of Lasse Viren and the current Japanese runners. Where were/are they for the first two years of an Olympic cycle? They were/are out plugging away on the base, not worrying about how fast they race until it gets closer to the time when it matters.

  • #17927

    TimRuns
    Member

    I’m definitely not ready…haven’t even touched my 1st marathon yet (not until October 2005)…perhaps If I do train consistently through the years I may have a shot at 2012 but that’s just plain speculation right now…

  • #17928

    Zeke
    Member
    Ryan wrote:
    Kooch, thanks but my plans are set. First, no Lakefront for me this fall. I’m sick of battling headwinds there. Second, my goal is 2007, not the fall of 2005.

    So you’re not going to run a marathon in 2005 or 2006?

  • #17929

    Ryan
    Keymaster
    Zeke wrote:
    So you’re not going to run a marathon in 2005 or 2006?

    I may or may not run one in 2005 and I’ll run at least one in 2006 but I’m willing to sacrifice a few minutes in 2005 and 2006 in order to best prepare for 2007.

  • #17930

    Doc Cole
    Member

    you and i have discussed your plans for the next three years. you know you have a solid plan to take you to the best you can be in 2007. do not worry about those who say you have to hit some arbitrary limit this year. just train hard and smart. chasing times this year would only be detrimental toward the ultimate goal. get out there and gain experience but keep your eye on the real goal.

  • #17931

    Anonymous
    Zeke wrote:
    Ryan wrote:
    Kooch, thanks but my plans are set. First, no Lakefront for me this fall. I’m sick of battling headwinds there. Second, my goal is 2007, not the fall of 2005.

    So you’re not going to run a marathon in 2005 or 2006?

    Did you bother reading beyond what you quoted? He explained that statement if you bothered reading on. In fact considering his explanation your question seems like nothing more than a feeble attempt to stir up some trouble. He is making a smart move and should be applauded for not selling out on his long term goal for short term results.

  • #17932

    Zeke
    Member
    Read the whole post wrote:
    Did you bother reading beyond what you quoted? He explained that statement if you bothered reading on. In fact considering his explanation your question seems like nothing more than a feeble attempt to stir up some trouble. He is making a smart move and should be applauded for not selling out on his long term goal for short term results.

    Yes, I read the whole post. He never really said if he was running a marathon in 2005 or 2006. He said “if” he runs one in 2005 and he talked about “setting himself up for 2006 and 2007.” I didn’t think those statements were very clear so I asked for clarification. I don’t see the big deal in that.

    If I were trying to “stir up some trouble” I’d tell Ryan to “shit or get off the pot.” Meaning, start running some marathons and drop your time to a point where 2:22 is at least an outside shot. Otherwise, find a new goal. He’s been “setting himself up” since I first got to this site in 2000. 5 years later he’s had 2 DNFs and a something like a 2:45.

    How’s that for a “feeble attempt”?

  • #17933

    Ed 1
    Member

    Hey guest – if you knew the people on this site you would know that Zeke was not trying to stir up trouble – he was just asking a question. So cool down and get to know us before you accuse people of anything. Ok. Chill, relax, take it easy. We are cool here. Besides Ryan is smart enough to remain focused on his goals and not let a little taunt (which it was NOT) pull him off track.

  • #17934

    ferris
    Member

    And some wonder why Ryan doesn’t post his training.

    I saw this topic and KNEW this would come up. So, I guess I’ll comment. Indeed Ryan has a very lofty goal. It will take WICKED focus and training for him to get there or even close for that matter. If he falls short, big deal, he’ll still be frickin fit and roll some serious PR’s. Why is it, though, that people are just waiting to pounce, kinda like ED’s sub 3 goal? I think its just the way people are. Maybe it makes us feel better about ourselves when we see someone who maybe aiming a bit high because it makes us feel betetr about acheiving our goals, which were probably set low to begin with. We don’t want to set ourselves up for failure, heck, I sure don’t. The problem is, not enough people set themselves up for accomplishment. Don’t friggin lie to me. We all do this….

    Runnin buddy: “dude, what time you shootin for today?”

    You: ” ahhh…I’m not super fit, just gonna try and get through it”

    You inside yer head: “well….Im not telling him I want a PR, because I’ll look like a knob if I dont get it, but I think I may get it if I have a good day, but just to be safe, I’ll downplay it”

    OK, so, in all honesty, I don’t see Ryan getting that 2:22. I hope that drives him even harder and he gets it. But, if he still says he wants that 2:22 and “only” goes 2:27, who am I or any of you to judge? Now, I’m not saying I will start wearing a Ryan HIll fan club T-shirt, but I’m not gong to crap on his dreams, either.

    Not saying anyone has done this, but just wanted to put it out there in case anyone was thinkning about it so maybe you will think twice, or once for that matter.

    good day all!

    PS- got a coaching job, pretty stoked for it!

  • #17935

    Anonymous

    I think Ryan and Ed get so much crap because people see their goals and unrealistic. I’m not saying that they are or aren’t, but it’s important to set realistic goals for ourselves. So with a PR of 2:45, it seems silly for a lot of people to hear that Ryan is trying for sub 2:22. However, not knowing Ryan’s history, it’s not up to me to decide whether or not it’s realistic. For all I know Ryan could have a 1:09 half under his belt and just blew up in the marathon he ran.

    Anyway, good luck!

  • #17936

    r-at-work
    Member

    it IS difficult to put your dreams out for the world to see… even on this BB which is fairly supportive… but even so it’s great to read stories about people who have gotten there, I can’t remember one where the person was just so talented that they walked in and succeeded… and win, lose or DNF, I’m sure all the runners looking at those times for themselves will be planning & working for the next bunch of years.. my wish for all of them is good luck, health and focus…

    and if we don’t get a minute by minute training log that’s okay… but if the media runs any stories they had better be posted here too… 😉

    -Rita

  • #17937

    Zeke
    Member

    Why is it, though, that people are just waiting to pounce, kinda like ED’s sub 3 goal?

    I’m just trying to figure out why “Read the whole post” decided to “pounce” on my basic questions? I don’t see any problem with asking someone if they’re going to run a marathon within the next 18 months.

    I think most of us here know that Ryan would like to qualify for the Oly Trials and we also know that he’s run 3 marathons, none of which turned out very well. It’s logical to want to know what his plans are leading up to the 2008 trials.

    I think Ed’s situation is a little different. He wants to run sub-3 tomorrow. He’s not patient enough, while Ryan seems too patient.

    Here’s an interesting thread about how long it took people to break 2:22.

    http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=757357&page=0

  • #17938

    Ryan
    Keymaster
    Zeke wrote:
    If I were trying to “stir up some trouble” I’d tell Ryan to “shit or get off the pot.” Meaning, start running some marathons and drop your time to a point where 2:22 is at least an outside shot. Otherwise, find a new goal. He’s been “setting himself up” since I first got to this site in 2000. 5 years later he’s had 2 DNFs and a something like a 2:45.

    And from 1990 to 2003, I had 14 consecutive years of settings PRs. I then wasted a good portion of 2004 chasing a PR when I should have been focusing on regaining fitness. I’m not making that mistake again. I’m still going to shoot for PRs this year but I’m not mortgaging the future for them. There’s more to setting up your marathon than just running marathons. If I don’t get myself into sub-2:22 shape by 2007, no 2005 or 2006 races will matter. In past years, I always chased immediate goals with the ultimate goal in the back of my mind. As of now, the ultimate goal is in the forefront of my mind and the immediate goals are being viewed as stepping stones toward that ultimate goal.

    Of all the people I have personally talked to and of all the people who were there to witness the conditions on the day I ran 2:45, not a single one has suggested that 2:45 was a reflection of my fitness on that day. Most say that I might as well consider myself a 2:35 runner based on my run that day. Personally, I consider myself a 2:45 runner who was ready for 2:35 but didn’t find the right conditions at the right time.

    I’m not going to say what I’m going to do racing wise in 2005 and 2006 because I’m not sure yet. Heck, maybe I’ll swing up by your neighborhood and let you see first hand how things are progressing or maybe I’ll head down to Chicago or go out to New York. Or maybe I’ll do none of those and work on getting closer to that 1:05-1:07 half that I think I will need to get to sub-2:22. What I do know is I’m going to use my racing in the fall of 2005 as a stepping stone. Maybe a 1:0X half marathon, maybe a 2:3X marathon, maybe another distance. What matters most right now, though, as Doc and I have discussed, is that I get in shape to get down to sub-2:22 by 2007. No amount of racing experience over any distance will get me to sub-2:22 if I’m not in shape for that. As Doc and I discussed, running marathons when I should be improving my fitness could be detrimental. There are plenty of stories of guys who have run sub-2:22 their first time out. I have three very significant lessons under my belt and will have more before the beginning of 2007. Right now, though, my number one focus is on taking care of the most important thing and that’s getting myself in good enough shape to make the goal a possibility.

    Maybe I will succeed in this attempt, maybe not. I know the cards are stacked against me but I have succeeded with the cards stacked against me before. I want to know whether this is possible and, with the help of people like Doc, I have come to a conclusion about the best way to find that out. I know not a lot of people believe I can do this. Heck, I have my own self-doubt at times, even now at times questioning whether my wasted years of 2003 and 2004 took away my chance, but I wouldn’t keep pushing through this kind of training if I didn’t have an underlying belief that this is possible. I also know that there are some people who would be happy to see me fail. I am looking forward to ruining their fun on one fine day in 2007. However, in the end, I don’t care whether people believe I will fail in qualifying for the Trials or even want me to fail in qualifying for the Trials. No matter what happens, when 2008 rolls around, I will have the satisfaction of knowing I took my shot. Whatever happens, I will have gained many experiences and learned a lot about running and about myself that I would never experience or learn by being satisfied with what I am and disinterested in finding out what I can be.

    Would “only” running 2:24 or 2:27 be a failure? In some senses, yes. Running in the Trials has been a goal of mine since I was in high school. In some ways, all I have accomplished since then was just another step toward the ultimate goal. In other senses, absolutely not. I remember not being able to hold an 8:00/mile pace for even a half mile. By chasing an “impossible” goal, I have already accomplished many “impossible” things and had countless experiences I never would have had if I would have just accepted being a back of the pack runner and never tried to catch up and eventually surpass the pack.

  • #17939

    Ryan, I was thinking about Lakefront the other day and the hard times you’ve had in the past during this race. Funny that you guys are mentioning it now. At any rate, you’ve got some stellar times ahead….G.L.

    Ryan wrote:
    Kooch, thanks but my plans are set. First, no Lakefront for me this fall. I’m sick of battling headwinds there. Second, my goal is 2007, not the fall of 2005. If I run a marathon this fall, I don’t know what the time will be but I’d rather run 2:35 and set myself up for 2006 and 2007 than run 2:30 and be less well prepared for the key years.

    Think of Lasse Viren and the current Japanese runners. Where were/are they for the first two years of an Olympic cycle? They were/are out plugging away on the base, not worrying about how fast they race until it gets closer to the time when it matters.

  • #17940

    Ed 1
    Member

    I think about my impatience all the time. I have always been that way with everything in life. I am hoping to learn before I make a mistake or get an injury. As I have fairly closely followed my coaches schedule I have noticed improvements in just weeks – I tend to want to push harder to see more improvements. Just the other day I was to do an easy 4 but ran it pretty fast – it felt so good the last mile was easily a 6 minute mile. I set a high goal – if I do not reach it – so be it. More base training for several months with strength and speed training after that.

    Mostly now I want my goal so that many people can eat crow – if I fail then I’ll be stuffed from all the crow thatI ‘ll be eating.

  • #17941

    Doc Cole
    Member
    Zeke wrote:
    I think most of us here know that Ryan would like to qualify for the Oly Trials and we also know that he’s run 3 marathons, none of which turned out very well.

    i beg to differ. he ran two marathons that turned out horrible but were wonderful learning experiences. the other marathon was actually a spectacular performance preceded by six months of spectacular preparation. neither the race nor the preparation were perfect but they were much more near perfection than most people will ever be. if it were not for factors that were completely out of his control you would be talking about two miserable performances and one outstanding performance. do not blame him for factors that were out of his control. instead look at how he handled those factors with the wisdom of a veteran. that performance alone tells me that ryan has what it takes above the shoulders to run under 2:22 as long as he is physically prepared for the task. what he needs is a lot of training to develop what it takes below the shoulders. he can gain racing experience along the way but doing too much would sacrifice the real key to accomplishing his goal – getting in the training required to build the fitness needed to run 2:22:00 or faster.

  • #17942

    Double
    Member

    Ryan, you know what the journey takes. I personally know what type of shape you were in a couple years ago. The workouts I saw up at South indicated fitness levels I’ll never approach. Your ideas of training are spot on for you, I just think you need to master the peaking issue. This is not easy and the majority of runners fail in this department. Many would rather run a bunch of really good races the bulk of the year.

    It is my hope that we can get some quality runs in together over the summer. I might have to put on the racing flats to keep up, but the effort would be worth it.

    Of course I to am included in the bunch that would like to see you run a few more marathons before 2007, but mine are selfish reasons. The idea of improving speed over the shorter distances is a solid format and platform for your ultimate goal.

    The other real life situation I see in this whole thing is….well….real life. Your getting married this year (congratulations) and this will change your life as you know it. You just don’t know it yet in the way some of us do.

    I don’t doubt you’ll get the training in, there is just the unknown factor many of us have experienced. I won’t go to the kid factor, because that is a sort of hyperspace option that will come later.

    I will see you after ultra season, possibly in July or early August.

    DD

  • #17943

    Zeke
    Member
    Doc Cole wrote:
    instead look at how he handled those factors with the wisdom of a veteran.

    Wisdom of a veteran? The story I heard is that he was running into the wind with a couple of guys then decided to pick up the pace early in the race and venture out on his own before fading. You can call that a “wonderful learning experience” if you want but I wouldn’t call it “wisdom of a veteran.”

    he can gain racing experience along the way but doing too much would sacrifice the real key to accomplishing his goal – getting in the training required to build the fitness needed to run 2:22:00 or faster.

    I think racing can help build fitness too. That’s why I asked my original question regarding Ryan’s plans for 2005 and 2006.

    Ryan,

    I think it’s great that running in the Trials is your ultimate goal. I don’t care if you race every weekend between now and then or if you only make one attempt at qualifying. I was just curious about how you planned on getting there. We never hear how your training is going and very seldom do we hear about races of any length.

    You might find this article inspiring.

    http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/sports/rudawsky/02232005.html

  • #17944

    Ryan
    Keymaster
    Zeke wrote:
    Ryan,

    I think it’s great that running in the Trials is your ultimate goal. I don’t care if you race every weekend between now and then or if you only make one attempt at qualifying. I was just curious about how you planned on getting there. We never hear how your training is going and very seldom do we hear about races of any length.

    I used to share everything. Every step of every run. Then, as Ferris alluded to, I realized the more I shared, the more criticism I got. What people saw publicly on the forums was the tip of the iceberg. What I got in e-mails was completely nauseating and often filled with personal insults, not just toward me but also toward those who mean the most to me. If things were going great, I was supposedly setting a bad example because “not everybody can train like that and if people try to copy your success, they are going to get hurt”. If something went wrong, the “I told you so” lines never stopped, even if it was something as simple as a blister or slipping on the ice. The second guessing (“you’re doing too much mileage”, “your repeats are too long/short/fast/slow”, “you’re not working in enough recovery”, “your taper is too short/long”, etc. ad nauseum) was unbearable. When I shared what I did, nothing I did was right. I was sick of it. I decided I’m doing this for myself so I have nothing to prove to anyone else. I decided I would share my results of my goal races and maybe some other races along the way but sharing any more than the bare bones essentials simply wasn’t worth the constant harrassment I got.

    In short, I remember a quote that said something about keep your goals and your preparation to yourself. After not following that advice, I understand very well why that is good advice.

  • #17945

    Doc Cole
    Member
    Zeke wrote:
    Wisdom of a veteran? The story I heard is that he was running into the wind with a couple of guys then decided to pick up the pace early in the race and venture out on his own before fading.

    wrong race. i would hope you would know which one i was talking about but i see i might have been wrong. how about when he beat guys who were much more accomplished runners than him including ones with more marathon experience? he handled adverse conditions better than some veterans. as for the race you referred to the story i heard was that he went for his goal when the conditions were still reasonably favorable and they got worse after he was on his own.

    Zeke wrote:
    I think racing can help build fitness too.

    losing one to two months of training in order to taper for and recover from a marathon does not help in the long run. shorter races can help build fitness as well as experience but marathons take too much away from one’s training. i talked to ryan a bit today and we have a good idea of what our plans for the next three years are. based on his last post i will let him decide if he wants to share that. i would not blame him for not sharing. there is a reason i asked him to not share my identity with anyone – at least for now.

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