A super long run today!

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This topic contains 6 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  randys 14 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #1346

    randys
    Member

    Today I ran the best 24 mile long run ever. If I had gone another 2.2 miles it would have been a new PR!

    I followed the advice given on this forum about running a continuous run. I usually leave a bottle of water at the end of my driveway and loop by the house to drink on long runs. That forces me to run boring loops in the vicinity of my house.

    This time I did something different. I bought one of those water bottle carriers you strap to your waist. I thought I would hate running with it but it wasn’t too bad.

    I set out, in the rain, to go 12 miles, turn around and head home. It worked out great. I explored several nearby towns and enjoyed every minute of the run. By about the midway point the rain stopped and things warmed up a lot.

    I didn’t track my time while running. I set my gps watch to display total distance and turned off the display of pace and time (it allows you to set custom displays with whatever info you want on the screen). I basically just ran until it said 12 miles and then turned around and mostly retraced my route.

    Here are the splits my watch recorded:

    24 miles: 3:16:57, 8:12 mpm

    1. 8:42

    2. 8:45

    3. 8:46

    4. 8:40

    5. 8:29

    6. 8:14

    7. 8:23

    8. 8:22

    9. 8:22

    10. 8:24

    11. 8:25

    12. 8:29

    13. 8:05

    14. 8:15

    15. 8:13

    16. 8:00

    17. 7:50

    18. 7:59

    19. 7:58

    20. 8:05

    21. 7:50

    22. 7:04

    23. 7:36

    24. 7:49

    I did the run as a continues run, never paused for any reason, so I feel good about that after last weeks 22 with all the rest time.

    I could have maintained the pace for another 2.2 without any problem. If I had I would have run a PB by about 2 minutes over last years PR of 3:37.

    In the morning I have a 9 mile run on the schedule and only a few hours since the long run ended feel ready to run. No unusual soreness or discomfort.

    Seeing how I ran large negative splits I wonder if my last 4 weeks of training should be focused on running more even splits. On the other hand seeing how well I did today I wonder if maybe running negative splits may be a strategy I take into the race.

    Any advice?

    Randy

  • #13953

    Zeke
    Member

    Seeing how I ran large negative splits I wonder if my last 4 weeks of training should be focused on running more even splits. On the other hand seeing how well I did today I wonder if maybe running negative splits may be a strategy I take into the race.

    Randy,

    Nice workout. That’s gotta boost your confidence too. How’d that 7:04 get in there. 😯 If those aren’t the splits of a sub-3:30 guy, I don’t know what are.

    I wouldn’t change anything now. If your body is used to going out easy, then picking up the pace as the run progresses – that’s perfect. It’s also a perfect race strategy. To run 3:30, I’d say go out in 1:45-1:47. Then pick it up a tad ’til 20, before hammering that last 10k. You’ll be amazed how many people you’ll pass by running negative or even splits.

  • #13954

    randys
    Member

    Zeke,

    My problem during long runs is more mental than physical. I never felt any discomfort or serious fatigue while running the 24 but after about 2 hours my mind began trying to ‘self-talk’ me into stopping early.

    A dialog was going on in my head reviewing the pros and cons of ending the run early or continuing. I don’t know why I have this problem. The fact that it was raining for the first 11 miles probably didn’t help my mood.

    The reason why mile 22 was fast was because I was heading for the ‘barn’. At about mile 18 I had ‘agreed’ (in my mind) to finish the run after 22 miles but as I appoached my house I saw the distance on my watch was already 22.3 so I continued the run to finish the full 24.

    Looking back I think I ‘agreed’ to end it at 22 only so I could ‘stop’ the negative ‘self-talk’ which was very distracting. It seems that on runs over 2 hours I develop ‘mental fatique’ even though physically I am in no distress.

    I needed no real recovery from the long run and got out the next morning for a 9 mile mp. I began slowly, both to warm up and because I was running into 25 mph winds. On the return I picked up the pace, even with the slow start I managed to average 8:15 for the run.

    I still have 1 more long run (16,24,16,13,race) but I will take it easy on that one because its only 3 weeks out from the race.

    For the next 3 weeks I am going to be increasing the intensity of my interval workouts. I have been doing 1600m @ 7:00 (3-5 repeats) but will now do 800m @ 3:20 (6-10 repeats).

    I don’t believe in a big taper so the last week (and race week) I lower the milage a little and focus on tempo and marathon pace runs. My milage goes from 65 to 50 to 25 leading to the race.

    If I have good race conditions (no wind), don’t get sick and run a smart race I am sure of a pr (could have easily run at least a 2 minute pr on Saturdays training run). Based on my recent 5k race (a very soft time) and my long runs a sub 3:30 BQ should be likely too.

    Randy

  • #13955

    Zeke
    Member

    Looking back I think I ‘agreed’ to end it at 22 only so I could ‘stop’ the negative ‘self-talk’ which was very distracting. It seems that on runs over 2 hours I develop ‘mental fatique’ even though physically I am in no distress.

    When you’re taking your splits are you looking at them right then or do you go over them after your run is completed? If you’re looking at them right then you may be putting to much pressure on your training runs and getting mentally tired. I’ve never “met” someone who’s so concerned about splits on a training run. Maybe you need to find some training partners to help pass the time with on your long runs. Are there any trails around where you could just zone out and enjoy the run?

    The thing with an out and back long run like that, what if something goes wrong? Would you be forced to run home no matter what? Yesterday I was doing my last long run and I had 20 penciled in. After 2 hours, I just didn’t have it, even at 8:30 pace. So I stopped at 18 and called it a day.

    I needed no real recovery from the long run and got out the next morning for a 9 mile mp. I began slowly, both to warm up and because I was running into 25 mph winds. On the return I picked up the pace, even with the slow start I managed to average 8:15 for the run.

    Is this Daniels’ plan? It’s been a few years, but I don’t remember doing 24 mile long runs followed by MP runs the next day. What ever happened to hard-easy. After a long run like that you want to recovery. Even though you “needed no real recovery,” your body is still depleted and needs time to rebuild.

    I still have 1 more long run but I will take it easy on that one because its only 3 weeks out from the race.

    Yes, don’t leave your sub-3:30 on one of your training loops 3 weeks before the race.

    I don’t believe in a big taper.

    Why not? Is that what past experience tells you?

    I lower the milage a little and focus on tempo and marathon pace runs.

    You may also want to keep some more intense workouts in your program. I don’t think you want to go from 1600 repeats to 800s to nothing. That might leave you flat on race day. At least include a couple of days with strides that last week.

  • #13956

    randys
    Member

    Actually I had no clue how fast I was running. I look at my splits only after I get home.

    The ForeRunner, in additional to several standard displays (that show distance, pace, total time, etc) has a ‘custom’ display where I can choose what information to display.

    When doing long runs, to prevent just the sort of thing you describe, I configure it to display only my ‘Total Milage’ (not even total time). So the only feedback I get until I return home is how far I have run.

    I set the watch to record an automatic split every mile so when I return home I can download the data to my pc. There I can see the datails of the run, including my splits, a ‘map’ of the route and even the elevation along the entire run.

    I use different ‘custom’ displays depending on the type of run. When running intervals I set the watch to record splits based on my interval distance and recovery time or distance (it can do either). I set it to beep at each transition from interval to recovery. And for at least the first couple of workouts at a new pace or distance (like this weeks intervals) I also display lap time (in this case 800m) to help me establish my feel for the pace.

    The schedule I follow has elements from Daniels and other books as well. Its not a ‘canned’ schedule and after each race (about every 6 months) I adjust elements based on how I feel things went in the prior training cycle.

    For example after my fall marathon I added a mid-week medium long run, extended the base phase, moved the start of hill training back by several weeks, and in addition to starting later I also shortended by 2 weeks the time spent with intervals.

    Some of these changes resulted from feedback from this board and other items I changed to suit my own feelings.

    The inclusion of 2 24 lsd’s over the last 5 weeks is less about physical conditioning and more for ‘confidence building’. I run a 20 or longer lsd every other week almost year round so I have the endurance to cover the distance. As the race approches I run the last part of long runs (as much as half the distance) at closer to (or faster than) race pace.

    For me its never a question of ‘can I go the distance’. I run a marathon every 6 months. When the race is over I do 4 weeks of recovery pace running and then I am back to preparing for the next marathon.

    My milage never really drops down, even in the 4 week recovery its mostly pace not milage that drops. My plan is to build on the conditioning from one race and move right into training for the next one, with more milage and a faster pace then in the prior one.

    I can cover 26.2 on any random day of the year, I need the confidence building of the last couple of long runs to ‘know’ I can do it at my planned pace.

    As far as tapering I think that my milage drops are fairly significant, just not as drastic as some people recommend. If I was running much higher milage (at least 90) then perhaps dropping by a larger percentage would be in order but at my milage it would be too extreme. Besides going from mid 60’s to 50 and then to 25 makes me feel more than rested enough. I just think the popular press puts too much emphsis on tapering.

    During the last 2 weeks I said I do mostly tempo and marathon pace. I really didn’t say that right. What I do run mostly fartlek during this period. If I am feeling good I may run a 1/4 or a 1/2 at interval pace its just that I don’t do the workouts like a structured interval workout. These last 2 weeks I try to take the pressure off so I run as I feel but generally keep the insensity up as the milage drops off.

    Randy

  • #13957

    cameron
    Member

    great job w/the long run. what marathon are you aiming at?

  • #13958

    randys
    Member

    May 2nd, the Long Island Marathon.

    This will be the 3rd time I run Long Island but it will be a new course this year (not yet published). My best time was 3:37 last May so I hope another year of training will get me those 7 minutes I need for a BQ.

    Randy

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