Advice on last long run before G’mas

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This topic contains 17 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Jeff 14 years, 5 months ago.

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  • #1543

    Jeff
    Member

    As most know I’m training for G’mas on the June 19th. I was following a Daniels marathon plan and running 40 to 50 mile per week and then I got injured. I took 10 days off to recover and haven’t been up to that many miles yet and not sure if I will. Anyhow, I decided to run the marathon any ways since it’s paid for and I want the experience because this will be my first.

    Since my injury my long runs have gone like this:

    13.25

    16

    18– 8:13 pace

    20– 8:27 pace

    I want to do 2 more longer runs before a 2 week taper. I’m thinking of doing a 16 this weekend as a cut back week and then hitting another 20 the following week.

    I had a recommendation (Pski) to make one of my long runs a 22 miler and run it at my goal marathon time. My goal is 3:30. So it would be a 22 miler in 3 hrs. 30 min. This is a very slow pace but I see the point– Getting time on the feet.

    My question; Would if be ok to swap my 20 miler in two weeks with the 22 miler at 3:30? Would this be a good spot for the 22 miler?

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks,

    Jeff

  • #14791

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Normally, I would say if you consider 22 miles at goal marathon time to be very slow, slow down and do 22 at goal marathon time. However, one thing stands out to me. This Saturday would be 3 weeks out from the 19th. Is there a reason you are pushing back your longest run to only 2 weeks out? I’d do the 22 miler this weekend and cruise into Grandma’s.

  • #14792

    Jeff
    Member
    Ryan wrote:
    Normally, I would say if you consider 22 miles at goal marathon time to be very slow, slow down and do 22 at goal marathon time. However, one thing stands out to me. This Saturday would be 3 weeks out from the 19th. Is there a reason you are pushing back your longest run to only 2 weeks out? I’d do the 22 miler this weekend and cruise into Grandma’s.

    Thanks Ryan.

    I was going to use this weekend as a cut back since I’ve done an 18 and a 20 in a row and just do 16 this week. Then do a 20 or 22 the following then a 2 week taper.

    Are you suggesting doing the 22 this Sunday at that 3hr and 30 min? And then do a 3 week taper? If I do it this way should I still fit that 16 miler in there in the last 3 weeks somewhere?

    I don’t know. I’m looking for some experienced advice. What do you think would be the best senerio?

    thanks,

    Jeff

  • #14793

    Birkierunner
    Member

    Jeff

    When I read that you were planning a cut back week at 16 mi I immediately thought to myself “why?”. I agree with Ryan that you should do your 22 miler this weekend and then I would do your 16 miler the weekend after that as part of a 3 week taper. I’m running Grandmas myself (aiming for 2:45) and plan to run my last 20 miler this coming weekend (5/30). I have done a 2 week taper for my previous 8 marathons and want to experiment with a 3 week taper this time with a 16 miler on June 6. Good luck and hope for this cool weather to continue.

  • #14794

    Zeke
    Member

    I agree with these guys; 20-22 this weekend, then 16ish next weekend. I’ve never tried it, but I think a 22 miler 2 weeks before the race is too close.

    Did you end up running the Brookings Half on the 15th?

  • #14795

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    As I check my calendar, I see that you have 3 weekends to go before Grandma’s. I would probably do 20-22 this coming weekend, 14-16 max the following weekend, then no more than 8-10 the last weekend before the race if I were in your position.

  • #14796

    pski
    Member

    Jeff, As you see it’s a no brainer here. It’s crunch time. Do the 22 miler in 3:30 or just under. Using Daniels formula’s your last two long runs are more in line with training for a 3:15 marathon. Do that 22 in about 8:50-8:55’s on average. You’ll come in somewhat under 3:30 I believe. Daniels prescribed long run pace for a 3:30 thon is 8:58’s! Now’s the time, 16 miles two weeks out at the same pace. Tune it up and let it rip.

    Patience on those paces. Any one run is just a snapshot in the whole training picture. That’s why your goal and pace are so important. Example, go out to fast in a 5 K, still feel good for 2.5 miles then crash. Well in marathon training you run this risk, train too fast on a Sunday, still feel great for a week and a half, and you did settle in and hit all your correct pacing the rest of the time. Then we can’t figure why the wheels fell off after a good week and a half and half already forgot about the screw up that one given Sunday. Then one may ask, how do we improve? Well the answer is gradually and steadily. The fascinating thing about the marathon isn’t the marathon itself, it’s getting there in the best possible shape.

    Best fo Luck Jeff, now go do your 22, then let that taper do it’s job. PSKI

  • #14797

    Jeff
    Member
    Zeke wrote:
    I agree with these guys; 20-22 this weekend, then 16ish next weekend. I’ve never tried it, but I think a 22 miler 2 weeks before the race is too close.

    Did you end up running the Brookings Half on the 15th?

    Thanks,Zeke. No I didn’t run the 1/2. Reason is because I’m in a time crunch for getting in long runs. I did an 18 miler instead.

    Jeff

  • #14798

    Jeff
    Member
    pski wrote:
    Jeff, As you see it’s a no brainer here. It’s crunch time. Do the 22 miler in 3:30 or just under. Using Daniels formula’s your last two long runs are more in line with training for a 3:15 marathon. Do that 22 in about 8:50-8:55’s on average. You’ll come in somewhat under 3:30 I believe. Daniels prescribed long run pace for a 3:30 thon is 8:58’s! Now’s the time, 16 miles two weeks out at the same pace. Tune it up and let it rip.

    Patience on those paces. Any one run is just a snapshot in the whole training picture. That’s why your goal and pace are so important. Example, go out to fast in a 5 K, still feel good for 2.5 miles then crash. Well in marathon training you run this risk, train too fast on a Sunday, still feel great for a week and a half, and you did settle in and hit all your correct pacing the rest of the time. Then we can’t figure why the wheels fell off after a good week and a half and half already forgot about the screw up that one given Sunday. Then one may ask, how do we improve? Well the answer is gradually and steadily. The fascinating thing about the marathon isn’t the marathon itself, it’s getting there in the best possible shape.

    Best fo Luck Jeff, now go do your 22, then let that taper do it’s job. PSKI

    Thanks, Pski. The 16 two weeks out you say do at the same pace. Do you mean the 8:50’s?

    Thanks, sounds like I’ll be doing a 22 miler this Sunday.

    Jeff

  • #14799

    Jeff
    Member
    Birkierunner wrote:
    Jeff

    When I read that you were planning a cut back week at 16 mi I immediately thought to myself “why?”. I agree with Ryan that you should do your 22 miler this weekend and then I would do your 16 miler the weekend after that as part of a 3 week taper. I’m running Grandmas myself (aiming for 2:45) and plan to run my last 20 miler this coming weekend (5/30). I have done a 2 week taper for my previous 8 marathons and want to experiment with a 3 week taper this time with a 16 miler on June 6. Good luck and hope for this cool weather to continue.

    Hey, Birkie. If the weather stays like it is we’ll be in Great shape! Good luck.

    Jeff

  • #14800

    Anonymous

    Yes, 8:50’s on the 16 pski

  • #14801

    Evets Sberk
    Member

    Jeff and Birkie, see you both there. I agree with everyone above in that Im planning on running a minimum of 22 this Friday (need 2 full days to recover for Boulder Bolder on Monday)….hopefully more if Im feeling good. Subsequently other than daily maintenance and some moderate speed work its taper city (I really hate tapering, I feel like such a slug 🙄 ). Target is 2:40 to 2:50 depending on how I feel, planetary alignment, vodoo etc. ?Are either of you going to the “Marathon & Beyond” funstion Sat post race?

  • #14802

    Zeke
    Member

    If the weather stays like it is we’ll be in Great shape!

    What? You like windy and rainy?

    The Green Bay Marathon was last weekend and they delayed the start over 30 minutes due to rain. Med-City Marathon in Rochester is this weekend and it looks like rain too.

    Sorry to hear you didn’t get to run that half marathon. 3M w/up, race, 2M c/down = 18 miles. Same as your long run…

  • #14803

    Ryan
    Keymaster
    Jeff wrote:
    If the weather stays like it is we’ll be in Great shape!

    That or Lake Superior water levels will be so high you’ll be swimming the marathon 😛

  • #14804

    Birkierunner
    Member

    Hey Evets

    No, not going to the M&B get-together. I usually cool down for an hour or so at the finish and then head home – I live about 2 hours south of Duluth (Centuria, WI).

    Yeah, guys, the rain has been a pain. My 20 miler on Sunday in the rain was the most miserable run of my life. But I hope the temps keep cool. Last year was a little too warm. Good luck to everyone and hopefully we’ll have some good post-race reports.

  • #14805

    Zeke
    Member

    I thought you were from Hayward, given your user name.

    I went 12 on Sunday it was miserable. The temp was right at the point between long-sleeve and short-sleeve. I decided to go with a jacket and try to keep some of the rain off me. I think it was better than a moisture control shirt. I did see some guy running in a white cotton t-shirt. Too bad it wasn’t a woman. 😛

  • #14806

    Jeff
    Member

    Evets,

    What’s this M&B all about? I’ll be around for the night and have no plans as of right now.

    Jeff

  • #14807

    Birkierunner
    Member

    Zeke

    x-c ski racing is my first love, so I don’t run at all from November to early March. I’ve raced in 7 Birkies and it is the highlight of my year. We’d like to get a cabin someday up near Hayward, but I work in the Twin Cities so have to stay reasonably close to that (1 hour commute!).

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