January 5, 2005 at 5:59 pm #2116
Hopefully your training is progressing well. You should be out just building up the mileage at this point. I want to bring to the front “real” goals. Running a sub 3 is a sizeable goal, so I want to show you a few lights along the way. You should get to the point you can consistently handle close to 60 mile weeks and at the end of one of those training weeks spit out a 10k tempo on the track around 39 flat. When you are in that vicinity then maybe your getting close.
The marathon is a function of speed just like any other race. We can predict performance on other indicators and it is something all of us as runners should learn to gauge well. Any race you line up in should have a solid plan based on recent performance and training. Above is something you should consider.
Training solely to run a 39 flat 10k race won’t get you there. Running and training all week, building strength, adapting to the long runs and then eventually honing it down to that range might.
Make it happen!
January 5, 2005 at 7:00 pm #17189
This is helpful for me to consider as well. I only need 7 minutes to get to the same goal, and I do have the requisite speed necessary. My task is to get the mileage up and keep it there. It took 14 months of consistent 40+ miles per week to get me to the 3:07 for Lakefront ’03. I hope to be able to do it in 9 months this time. One run at a time….
Just got done running 6 miles at lunch on the dreadmill. Ed, I agree with what Dave said; Make it happen! (that’s one of the definitions for “Pack a lunch”)
January 5, 2005 at 8:13 pm #17190
I knew that it would be a daunting task – but you have put extra perspective on it with the 60 mile weeks followed by a sub 40 10K. That has given me better perspective and will encourage some stronger effort on daily runs to push slightly every time. This week my aim is my highest weekly total ever which will be about 50 miles. I hope to increase that next week to almost 60 and maintain that the following week as well. Chad has a schedule set up for me to do a Spring marathon (Green Bay) – this insane lofty goal of a 35 minute improvement is for Lakefront in Fall. Thanks greatly for that perspective it will help imensely.
January 5, 2005 at 8:30 pm #17191
ZekeMemberEd 1 wrote:This week my aim is my highest weekly total ever which will be about 50 miles.
When I started working with you, you mentioned that the runner’s world program you followed for your first marathon topped out at 60 mpw. You also mentioned that you “jumped hard into high mileage” by diving into a 40 mile week, followed by a 65 mile week which forced you to take 4 months off.
There’s a big difference between 50 and 65. It’s hard to help you if the facts aren’t correct.
I hope to increase that next week to almost 60 and maintain that the following week as well.
Let’s not get too carried away. You get too excited one week, then end up slacking the next 2 weeks. The Pfitz program I’m looking at for you maxes out at 55 mpw. No sense trying to jump from 15 to 50 to 60. I gave you a plan on increasing your base until the program starts and you really haven’t followed anything I’ve written. Hopefully that will change as we go forward.
January 5, 2005 at 8:32 pm #17192
elkidMemberZeke wrote:There’s a big difference between 50 and 65.
Good god, yes there is. But 65s are more fun. 8)
January 5, 2005 at 8:58 pm #17193Ed 1 wrote:That has given me better perspective and will encourage some stronger effort on daily runs to push slightly every time.
Actually, the perspective I got from it is get the base in first and let the paces take care of themselves. If you are out to “push it slightly” every run, you could end up pushing yourself over the edge. At this point in time, any pushing should come in terms of pushing the distance. The pace will come if you establish a good base and let it do its job.
Just look at Double. If anyone here knows how to get it done in the marathon, it’s him. You don’t see him out pushing it slightly every run. Heck, some of his runs are probably slower than most of yours and he’s already a 2:40 guy.
January 6, 2005 at 7:30 pm #17194
not to nit pick… but I’m always looking for the ‘best’ way of doing things…
this is mainly to Ed1 –
when you trained for you first marathon, did you follow ‘the plan’ to the letter? I mean, how has your attitude towards your daily run changed (or stayed the same)… the reason I ask is that while training for my first I was SO PARANOID that I was going to die if I didn’t get every mile in that I never missed a single workout, luckily I didn’t get injured or sick, and it worked out well (for my goals of 1. finishing, 2. being able to walk the next day)…
for the second marathon I realized I wouldn’t die and missed a couple days (scheduled ones, not just recovery days)… it took till #4 to realize that if I was going to improve I would need to do something more than just ‘show up’ as it were for my daily run…
I’m still trying to improve before the ‘getting older’ curve intersects with the ‘improving new runner’ curve…
anyway… you really seem to be enthusiastic (I want more of that) but life seems to get in the way(happens to me too)… and I wonder what it will take to keep me consistant through this winter, in the past winter hasn’t been the best for that(for me)…
hope this whole thread doesn’t make you feel too much like a guinea pig… it’s probably the biggest reason I am reluctant to post my goals…
January 7, 2005 at 3:54 pm #17195
The 65 miles occured over 8 days and included 2 long runs – there was no structure. I do not remember the plan all that well – it was the begining runner’s marathon plan on Runner’s World website.
I do apologize for not following your schedule – I guess part of my madness is trying to make up for missed runs. I, due to client crises at work, family errands and the snow storm, did not get out Wednesday. Thursday I slipped nearly every step I took but made it 4 miles – felt like 6. This morning I sucked it up – paid my Bally dues and hit the mill for 6.5. Each weekday will be at Bally’s so I have no excuses for not hitting 7-8 miles M-F for a total of 35-40 not counting the long run or Sunday’s run.
To R at Work – I did miss some of the runs on my first training schedule while camping in the North Woods. So I undersatnd that point you are making. I do not mind this type of attention or focus – it can only help me and it may help others as well.
I plan to get up fairly early Saturday and attempt 12-14 – as you all have pointed out I will not think about pace until the last two miles or less where I will raise the pace to finish feeling challenged.
January 7, 2005 at 4:22 pm #17196
just a note, you might want to be careful about doing a 10k on the track. too many laps in the same direction might be pretty stressful and might cause a strain.
January 7, 2005 at 5:48 pm #17197
if you give yourself some exposure to track running. ie- a few workouts, your body will be fine and a track 10k will probably not do any harm. People race 10k’s on the track all the time (college) and are fine because they are doing track wrkouts in training.
I wouldnt post things like that, they only scare people who don’t have the knowledge. I mean, you might as well have said “you should be careful running on the streets because the pavement is hard” or ” make sure you take equal amounts of right and left turns when running on the roads so you don’t cause a strain”
You make a valid point, because strains do occur from track running, but its no reason to have someone shy away from a TT on the track.
January 7, 2005 at 8:48 pm #17198
I have to agree with Ferris. A blanket statement like the one made about the 10k on the track isn’t fair to the event and could lead to undue worry by anyone reading it.
I have raced 10k on the track at least 8 times (twice per season for 4 collegiate outdoor seasons) and I have raced the 5k on indoor tracks, an event that I consider to be even harder on the body when it comes to the stress of the turns, many more times than that. While the extra stress to the body is real and should be considered, it is not hard at all to prepare for. All it takes is a few track workouts.
Heck, I think daily training in Frame Park, with all the twists and turns on those trails plus the harder surface, is harder on the ankles and lower legs than any track race but I’m not letting that stop me from going there on a very regular basis. By the time the winter is over, Frame Park should have me well prepared for any track race.
January 8, 2005 at 3:28 am #17199
Well, everyone might be different. I may have read some things suggesting changing directions, and I might’ve thought it was the right thing to say. However, just because people might do certain things all the time, might not determine an actions morality or safety. If things were safe because people do it all the time, smoking might be safe, right? But everyone might be different, what might be unsafe for one person might not be for another as we all might know.
Anyway, I hope you do well with training and racing Ed.
January 10, 2005 at 2:33 am #17200
I see. So, since a minority of people might need more than a few track workouts and the rare individual may simply struggle with track races no matter what, a blanket warning should be given.
Sorry but I don’t go for that. To me, this is the same mentality that brings us things like the “10% rule” and “less is more” philosophy, which cause more harm than good when it comes to competitive running.
January 10, 2005 at 1:37 pm #17201
The last couple of days my left knee has been sore about 6 miles into a run. This means that for me I do need to change directions on the track – after the snow is gone – I was running the track making all left turns – now that knee hurts a little. I am glad that this has been brought up – I will run more street routes with right turns and stick more to the mill until the snow and ice are gone.
Thanks for the note of warning – changing directions will solve the problems.
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