How does one PR right off of base building?

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This topic contains 10 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  ed 10 years, 3 months ago.

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  • #10319

    Manwich56
    Member

    How does one do this??  It doesn't make sense.  If your race pace is say 5:15 for a 5k and your base building pace is like 6:20-7:00.  How can one possible sustain a 5:15 pace right out of base building???  I mean the legs will be so unfamiliar with that kind of pace that one would just be swimming in lactic acid pretty quickly if one were to try to maintain a race pace right out of base building.  I can understand hitting a PR before the hard speed phase maybe like in phase two of training when you add some hill work and threshold work but right out of easy pace running??

    Or does PR out of base building only really apply to longer races??

    Thanks

  • #26106

    Run
    Member

    I think the easy answer is, you don't.

  • #26107

    GTF
    Member

    Two options:
    1. Have a slower PR
    2. Run faster in base building

  • #26108

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Option 3, which is built upon option 1: Never establish a base previously, so establishing a base will greatly improve your overall fitness.

  • #26109

    ok, here's a bit of a case study. 

    I'm a bit of an anomaly because I generally avoid speed work because quite frankly I suck at it and the reality of getting on the track is more than my ego can handle.

    Currently I have about 8 weeks of base work in me averaging around 50 miles or so per week.  Ok, so not much of a base but work with me a little here.  I've done no racing because there have not been many and I'm not all that interested in paying $20 bucks to get smoked if their were.  I did run in a 92 mile relay race in mid August and ran 14.5 in two runs and I hoped I ran about 6:00 per mile (At least that is what my friends Garmin said).  Generally, 80% easy pace around 6:50-7:10 with a long run and tempo runs mixed in there.  No real speed work.

    So off I go to the track not expecting much.

    Well, it was not pretty.

    Here's a quick summary of the latter workout I did.

    15 minute jog over to the track

    200 – 37.5 – each of these followed by 400 meter jog which felt right.  I was not fully recovered before taking off again.

    400 – 80.6 – ok, not too bad

    800 – 2:50 – poor fitness starting to show.  Lactic acid building

    1200 – 4:20 – not pretty

    800 – 2:54 – getting downright ugly

    400 – 76.2 – Needed to salvage something from this workout.  I felt much stronger on the 2nd lap but I was working very hard.

    200 – 33 – this was practically all out.  Wanted to see what it feels like to like to run 14 seconds slower than Usain Bolt.  That guy is not human.

    23 minute cool down, hurting the whole way home.

    What I learned is that I currently have no balance.  On a scale of 1-10, aerobic is around a 7 or 8, anaerobic is around a 2 or 3.  I can go at a descent pace for a while but once I put the hammer down (yes I recognize the oxymoron) the lactic acid builds pretty quick.  If you want to run fast you need to practice running fast which I have clearly not done. 

    In descent shape, history tells me I can run around 17 flat for 5k.  I'd take 18 flat right now but I think a few more weeks of these workouts and maybe a hill workout or two will get me where I need to be.

    Target Race is the Milkbone Hounds and Harriers 3 mile on October 11th.  Yes, you run as fast as you can with your dog.  The key to the race is speed work for a couple reasons.  1)  My dog is much faster then I am and the longer we can run together with a slight pull, the better we'll do as a team. 2)  Dogs tend not to understand the concept of even or negative splits. We'll probably go through the first mile in 5:10 or so.  I need to not be dead after this.

    Also, turning 40 next week and am motivated to compete in the new age group this fall.

    For the high school cc athlete that has been posting here which I think triggered this thread, do yourself a favor and read Daniel's Running Formula.  Ryan has a link on this site.  In my opinion, it does a great job at explaining periodization as well as how to conduct speed work training.  Of course, use this in conjunction with the guidance that your coach is giving you.  Don't get discouraged by your times right now.  You mentioned that you got tired when you hit the hills.  This makes complete sense because lactic acid probably build up and you have no practice breaking it down.  This is ok for your first race of the year and you'll get better especially since you did the base work.  Good luck!

  • #26110

    sueruns
    Member

    Option 3, which is built upon option 1: Never establish a base previously, so establishing a base will greatly improve your overall fitness.

    witnessed.

    person went from a 3:51 to 3:23 in a marathon……now with adding speedwork back in, he's going for a 3:00

  • #26111

    SBSpartan
    Member

    Or run really hard courses and then run an easier one.

    IE – Run Atlanta or Charlotte then go run Chicago.

  • #26112

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Or St. George or Pocono. 😉

  • #26113

    SBSpartan
    Member

    HA I just commented on that in the other thread.

  • #26114

    GTF
    Member

    Or run really hard courses and then run an easier one.

    IE – Run Atlanta or Charlotte then go run Chicago.

    Expanding on that particular theme: or cut the course or take PEDs.

  • #26115

    ed
    Participant

    You could also where those “heelies” – shoes with wheels in the heels and coast down the hills. ;D

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