Interesting article on doping in sports

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This topic contains 46 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  Ryan 14 years ago.

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  • #1876

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    This didn’t really have any news from the running world but I thought it was a good read so I thought I’d open it up to discussion.

    SI.com article

    The quote that most stuck with me:

    For me, it keeps coming back to this: I’m not convinced that anybody is clean. Are you? And do you care?

  • #15993

    Bart
    Member

    For me, it keeps coming back to this: I’m not convinced that anybody is clean. Are you? And do you care?

    It’s easy to get frustrated by all the doping scandals and it would be nice not to care. However, if you care about sports, you need to care about doping. Keeping sports clean is necessary to protect the accomplishments of the athletes who built the sport and to protect the current athletes who are clean.

    Bart

  • #16095

    Bart
    Member

    For me, it keeps coming back to this: I’m not convinced that anybody is clean. Are you? And do you care?

    It’s easy to get frustrated by all the doping scandals and it would be nice not to care. However, if you care about sports, you need to care about doping. Keeping sports clean is necessary to protect the accomplishments of the athletes who built the sport and to protect the current athletes who are clean.

    Bart

  • #15994

    Ed 1
    Member

    It does not bother me too much because I will never compete for first place (maybe in age group some day). Most of my racing will be for beating my PB – cheaters will have to live with their conscience. If I cheated and won deep down I would always wonder – Did I really win?

  • #16096

    Ed 1
    Member

    It does not bother me too much because I will never compete for first place (maybe in age group some day). Most of my racing will be for beating my PB – cheaters will have to live with their conscience. If I cheated and won deep down I would always wonder – Did I really win?

  • #15995

    puffintoad
    Member

    I think deep down you would know that you didn’t.

  • #16097

    puffintoad
    Member

    I think deep down you would know that you didn’t.

  • #15996

    r-at-work
    Member

    I remember an interview with a football player YEARS ago, aired after the guy had a heart attack and had died (at a young age)… he talked about his steroid use as what he HAD to do because ‘everybody else did it’ and it kept him competitive… when asked if he realized the health risks he said it didn’t matter as long as he got to play…

    maybe if I was young, on the edge of being competitive and still thinking I was going to live forever I might look at things differently… but from where I’m at now (50) and seeing this stuff happening makes me realize that taking something might just KILL you… you can have a bad reaction to something as simple as a transfusison.

    so it matters to ME, I would not use anything… also hope my kids never get into anything like that… but can I tell if everyone is clean or everyone is using something… nope… I also know that just because someone is great at what they do doesn’t mean they are using something…

    -R

  • #16098

    r-at-work
    Member

    I remember an interview with a football player YEARS ago, aired after the guy had a heart attack and had died (at a young age)… he talked about his steroid use as what he HAD to do because ‘everybody else did it’ and it kept him competitive… when asked if he realized the health risks he said it didn’t matter as long as he got to play…

    maybe if I was young, on the edge of being competitive and still thinking I was going to live forever I might look at things differently… but from where I’m at now (50) and seeing this stuff happening makes me realize that taking something might just KILL you… you can have a bad reaction to something as simple as a transfusison.

    so it matters to ME, I would not use anything… also hope my kids never get into anything like that… but can I tell if everyone is clean or everyone is using something… nope… I also know that just because someone is great at what they do doesn’t mean they are using something…

    -R

  • #15997

    runnerdude
    Member

    if you care about sports, you need to care about doping. Keeping sports clean is necessary to protect the accomplishments of the athletes who built the sport and to protect the current athletes who are clean.

    Exactly. In addition, if you allow for things that may not seem too egregious now, you’re opening the door for more outrageous drugs, processes and substances in the future. We could wind up with athletes who really are genetic freaks who are engineered for maximum performance that isn’t even linked to desire & competitiveness – the very qualities that make Brett Favre such a great football player, Ed.

  • #16099

    runnerdude
    Member

    if you care about sports, you need to care about doping. Keeping sports clean is necessary to protect the accomplishments of the athletes who built the sport and to protect the current athletes who are clean.

    Exactly. In addition, if you allow for things that may not seem too egregious now, you’re opening the door for more outrageous drugs, processes and substances in the future. We could wind up with athletes who really are genetic freaks who are engineered for maximum performance that isn’t even linked to desire & competitiveness – the very qualities that make Brett Favre such a great football player, Ed.

  • #15998

    Ed 1
    Member

    Do we need to be these players guardian angles? I do not know. I guess that I do not care what happens to people who make those types of decisions. I am working on changing that way of thinking mainly because of the fervor that you all had in stopping me from trying to train at those 6 minute miles. You cared that a decision I was making would hurt me – I should return that favor to others in the sporting world.

    I do care about the records and all that, built by clean athletes – take for example Barry Bonds versus Hank Arron. Hank Arron never grew magically in size over an off season like Barry did. Barry and other players refuse to allow testing (I think we all know why). When Barry breaks the record it will not be true in my opinion.

  • #16100

    Ed 1
    Member

    Do we need to be these players guardian angles? I do not know. I guess that I do not care what happens to people who make those types of decisions. I am working on changing that way of thinking mainly because of the fervor that you all had in stopping me from trying to train at those 6 minute miles. You cared that a decision I was making would hurt me – I should return that favor to others in the sporting world.

    I do care about the records and all that, built by clean athletes – take for example Barry Bonds versus Hank Arron. Hank Arron never grew magically in size over an off season like Barry did. Barry and other players refuse to allow testing (I think we all know why). When Barry breaks the record it will not be true in my opinion.

  • #15999

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    OK, now that we have a few opinions out there, I thought I’d weigh in on the topic.

    First off, I understand where the author is coming from. I can see where it is very hard to believe that any top level professional athlete in any sport is clean, especially with the doping news that has come up over the past year or so. That said, I’m sure the quote that I pulled was a deliberate attention grabbing exaggeration. I’m sure there are clean athletes out there but it is getting increasingly hard, if not simply impossible, to know who might be clean and who might be using.

    I also understand his statement “Do you care?” although I think this is another attention grabber (and yes, I purposely used those attention grabbers to get attention and spur discussion here). I hope people do care. When watching a race, I hope people aren’t thinking this race is a sham, this guy and that guy and this other guy are all dirty so it’s meaningless. At that point in time, I hope everyone can enjoy the excitement of the competition. However, when it comes to what this means to our sport and our future stars, I hope it does matter to all of us.

    Whenever the drug discussion comes up, someone usually shows up and asks why drugs are even banned. Just allow everything to go and you don’t have to worry about the expenses and bad press associated with tests and positive results. It works for baseball after all, right? Heck, remember last year when they started drug testing? Only in season and the players knew about the tests ahead of time and still 7% of them tested positive. Read that again, 7% of them tested positive when they knew when the tests were going to take place. Still, T&F with a positive rate of well below 1% when the athletes don’t know they are going to be tested gets all the press for dirty athletes because of suspensions and an appeals process that drags on forever. Of course, recently, we have been seeing that athletes in the sports that do little to no drug testing have also been getting this bad press so hopefully views are changing.

    While it’s a nice thought to say just allow anything, don’t governing bodies have some responsibility to their athletes and, most importantly, children who aspire to be the next star? I believe they do. Even though there will always be undetectable drugs, it just seems right to take a stance of not allowing drugs that can be dangerous. Of course, some banned substances aren’t all that dangerous (remember, Sudafed has a banned substance) and some substances that could be dangerous aren’t banned. What about that? Well, you do have to draw the line somewhere and that line, in general right now, seems to be the line between natural and man-made. If you can get something naturally from your diet or surroundings, even if it does improve your performance, it is not banned except at outrageous levels. If you can not get it naturally and it does improve your performance, it is banned. To me, this seems as good as any other option of where to draw the line.

  • #16101

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    OK, now that we have a few opinions out there, I thought I’d weigh in on the topic.

    First off, I understand where the author is coming from. I can see where it is very hard to believe that any top level professional athlete in any sport is clean, especially with the doping news that has come up over the past year or so. That said, I’m sure the quote that I pulled was a deliberate attention grabbing exaggeration. I’m sure there are clean athletes out there but it is getting increasingly hard, if not simply impossible, to know who might be clean and who might be using.

    I also understand his statement “Do you care?” although I think this is another attention grabber (and yes, I purposely used those attention grabbers to get attention and spur discussion here). I hope people do care. When watching a race, I hope people aren’t thinking this race is a sham, this guy and that guy and this other guy are all dirty so it’s meaningless. At that point in time, I hope everyone can enjoy the excitement of the competition. However, when it comes to what this means to our sport and our future stars, I hope it does matter to all of us.

    Whenever the drug discussion comes up, someone usually shows up and asks why drugs are even banned. Just allow everything to go and you don’t have to worry about the expenses and bad press associated with tests and positive results. It works for baseball after all, right? Heck, remember last year when they started drug testing? Only in season and the players knew about the tests ahead of time and still 7% of them tested positive. Read that again, 7% of them tested positive when they knew when the tests were going to take place. Still, T&F with a positive rate of well below 1% when the athletes don’t know they are going to be tested gets all the press for dirty athletes because of suspensions and an appeals process that drags on forever. Of course, recently, we have been seeing that athletes in the sports that do little to no drug testing have also been getting this bad press so hopefully views are changing.

    While it’s a nice thought to say just allow anything, don’t governing bodies have some responsibility to their athletes and, most importantly, children who aspire to be the next star? I believe they do. Even though there will always be undetectable drugs, it just seems right to take a stance of not allowing drugs that can be dangerous. Of course, some banned substances aren’t all that dangerous (remember, Sudafed has a banned substance) and some substances that could be dangerous aren’t banned. What about that? Well, you do have to draw the line somewhere and that line, in general right now, seems to be the line between natural and man-made. If you can get something naturally from your diet or surroundings, even if it does improve your performance, it is not banned except at outrageous levels. If you can not get it naturally and it does improve your performance, it is banned. To me, this seems as good as any other option of where to draw the line.

  • #16000

    r-at-work
    Member

    so what happened to those 7% of the baseball guys who tested positive?

    can you tellI don’t follow it much?

    -R

  • #16102

    r-at-work
    Member

    so what happened to those 7% of the baseball guys who tested positive?

    can you tellI don’t follow it much?

    -R

  • #16001

    Ryan
    Keymaster
    r-at-work wrote:
    so what happened to those 7% of the baseball guys who tested positive?

    Not a thing. We don’t even know who did test positive. The testing was done not in the interest of punishing the cheaters but in the interest of determining how significant the issue was. If certain percentages (I don’t remember the numbers) were reached, then a system would be put in place to suspend those who tested positive in the future. If they weren’t reached, the problem would be deemed not significant enough to worry about because apparently having just a few cheaters isn’t a problem, it’s only a problem if you have a lot of cheaters. What a great message they are sending to kids who look up to these guys.

    It must be nice (for the players at least) to have such a powerful players union.

  • #16103

    Ryan
    Keymaster
    r-at-work wrote:
    so what happened to those 7% of the baseball guys who tested positive?

    Not a thing. We don’t even know who did test positive. The testing was done not in the interest of punishing the cheaters but in the interest of determining how significant the issue was. If certain percentages (I don’t remember the numbers) were reached, then a system would be put in place to suspend those who tested positive in the future. If they weren’t reached, the problem would be deemed not significant enough to worry about because apparently having just a few cheaters isn’t a problem, it’s only a problem if you have a lot of cheaters. What a great message they are sending to kids who look up to these guys.

    It must be nice (for the players at least) to have such a powerful players union.

  • #16002

    Bart
    Member
    Ed 1 wrote:
    Do we need to be these players guardian angles? I do not know. I guess that I do not care what happens to people who make those types of decisions. I am working on changing that way of thinking mainly because of the fervor that you all had in stopping me from trying to train at those 6 minute miles. You cared that a decision I was making would hurt me – I should return that favor to others in the sporting world.

    I don’t think you need to care about the athletes who are taking drugs at the risk of disease in the future. They’re adults who are making a decision. I think you need to care about the clean athletes who are losing championships and money because they can’t beat athletes who are using illegal substances. What would Suzy Favor Hamilton’s legacy be if Regina Jacobs was clean? We’ll never know.

    Ed 1 wrote:
    I do care about the records and all that, built by clean athletes – take for example Barry Bonds versus Hank Arron. Hank Arron never grew magically in size over an off season like Barry did. Barry and other players refuse to allow testing (I think we all know why). When Barry breaks the record it will not be true in my opinion.

    Do you have proof that Bonds was using steroids? One interesting fact about when MLB starting testing — a lot of power hitters’ home run totals went down; however, Bonds’ numbers stayed near the top. His home run totals are lower, but that’s due to an increased number of walks. His home runs per at bat ratio is amazing.

  • #16104

    Bart
    Member
    Ed 1 wrote:
    Do we need to be these players guardian angles? I do not know. I guess that I do not care what happens to people who make those types of decisions. I am working on changing that way of thinking mainly because of the fervor that you all had in stopping me from trying to train at those 6 minute miles. You cared that a decision I was making would hurt me – I should return that favor to others in the sporting world.

    I don’t think you need to care about the athletes who are taking drugs at the risk of disease in the future. They’re adults who are making a decision. I think you need to care about the clean athletes who are losing championships and money because they can’t beat athletes who are using illegal substances. What would Suzy Favor Hamilton’s legacy be if Regina Jacobs was clean? We’ll never know.

    Ed 1 wrote:
    I do care about the records and all that, built by clean athletes – take for example Barry Bonds versus Hank Arron. Hank Arron never grew magically in size over an off season like Barry did. Barry and other players refuse to allow testing (I think we all know why). When Barry breaks the record it will not be true in my opinion.

    Do you have proof that Bonds was using steroids? One interesting fact about when MLB starting testing — a lot of power hitters’ home run totals went down; however, Bonds’ numbers stayed near the top. His home run totals are lower, but that’s due to an increased number of walks. His home runs per at bat ratio is amazing.

  • #16003

    Ed 1
    Member

    No proof because they will not test – it should be very hard to explain his sudden expansion in size and strength. I guess that unless he tests – I’ll always doubt his numbers. Look at the way Sammy Sosa argued that he was not on the juice but when asked to go to a lab by a reporter Sammy got very very angry and refused to respond to the reporter any further. If some one has nothing to hide but there is reason to wonder – put it all out in the open – and shut those with questions up.

  • #16105

    Ed 1
    Member

    No proof because they will not test – it should be very hard to explain his sudden expansion in size and strength. I guess that unless he tests – I’ll always doubt his numbers. Look at the way Sammy Sosa argued that he was not on the juice but when asked to go to a lab by a reporter Sammy got very very angry and refused to respond to the reporter any further. If some one has nothing to hide but there is reason to wonder – put it all out in the open – and shut those with questions up.

  • #16004

    JCWrs
    Member

    Actually Bonds has been tested. If you search espn.com a bit there is a report that he was the subject of a random test on, I believe, friday. Now, even if he tests positive we may not find out about it because a first offense is treatment with no on-field punishment or publicity. However, I’ve got to believe that, if he did test positive, it would leak out sooner rather then later.

  • #16106

    JCWrs
    Member

    Actually Bonds has been tested. If you search espn.com a bit there is a report that he was the subject of a random test on, I believe, friday. Now, even if he tests positive we may not find out about it because a first offense is treatment with no on-field punishment or publicity. However, I’ve got to believe that, if he did test positive, it would leak out sooner rather then later.

  • #16005

    Ryan
    Keymaster
    Ed 1 wrote:
    If some one has nothing to hide but there is reason to wonder – put it all out in the open – and shut those with questions up.

    While I tend to agree with your statement, I can also see how someone who is truly clean would be very upset if someone basically stated “The only way I’m going to believe you, even though there is no evidence to discredit you, is if you pee in this cup.” What if someone told you that? How would you feel? Sure, I might pee in the cup to shut the person up but I’d also be quite upset that the person felt that an invasion of my privacy was necessary to prove my innocence. I would hope if I was upset enough that I refused, people wouldn’t see that as an admission of guilt.

  • #16107

    Ryan
    Keymaster
    Ed 1 wrote:
    If some one has nothing to hide but there is reason to wonder – put it all out in the open – and shut those with questions up.

    While I tend to agree with your statement, I can also see how someone who is truly clean would be very upset if someone basically stated “The only way I’m going to believe you, even though there is no evidence to discredit you, is if you pee in this cup.” What if someone told you that? How would you feel? Sure, I might pee in the cup to shut the person up but I’d also be quite upset that the person felt that an invasion of my privacy was necessary to prove my innocence. I would hope if I was upset enough that I refused, people wouldn’t see that as an admission of guilt.

  • #16006

    Keeping sports clean is necessary to protect the accomplishments of the athletes who built the sport and to protect the current athletes who are clean.

    Going further, and beyond the momentary lapse into solipsism in some of the above messages, maintaining integrity amongst competitors in the highest levels of sport is of substance to those who find importance in instilling this value in future generations, which may find dramatic and irreparable harm at a more formative age through abusing substances, which the idols in sport are said or even known to use, all in the pursuit of improved performance and competitiveness in a society that too often exalts victory in the arena far above all else.

  • #16108

    Keeping sports clean is necessary to protect the accomplishments of the athletes who built the sport and to protect the current athletes who are clean.

    Going further, and beyond the momentary lapse into solipsism in some of the above messages, maintaining integrity amongst competitors in the highest levels of sport is of substance to those who find importance in instilling this value in future generations, which may find dramatic and irreparable harm at a more formative age through abusing substances, which the idols in sport are said or even known to use, all in the pursuit of improved performance and competitiveness in a society that too often exalts victory in the arena far above all else.

  • #16007

    Ed 1
    Member

    Ryan said:

    What if someone told you that? How would you feel?

    If I knew the person it would bother me seriously – becuase they should know me well enough. If I did not know the person – it would not bother me at all – why should it? Who the hell are they to me – nobody! Through these forums I am getting to know you guys and gals and hopefully you are getting to know me – I would never accuse anyone on this site of not being clean and hopefully you all would know the same about me.

    Part of the problem in America is the huge emphasis on vanity. Too many people feel that every one must like me and look up to me etc… Who cares? As long as those who know you respect you – life will be good.

  • #16109

    Ed 1
    Member

    Ryan said:

    What if someone told you that? How would you feel?

    If I knew the person it would bother me seriously – becuase they should know me well enough. If I did not know the person – it would not bother me at all – why should it? Who the hell are they to me – nobody! Through these forums I am getting to know you guys and gals and hopefully you are getting to know me – I would never accuse anyone on this site of not being clean and hopefully you all would know the same about me.

    Part of the problem in America is the huge emphasis on vanity. Too many people feel that every one must like me and look up to me etc… Who cares? As long as those who know you respect you – life will be good.

  • #16008

    “No man is so insignificant as to be sure his example can do no hurt.” – Lord Clarendon

  • #16110

    “No man is so insignificant as to be sure his example can do no hurt.” – Lord Clarendon

  • #16009

    sub3marathon
    Member

    I keep saying to myself that I am just going to stop watching sports and just run for myself, but alas I cannot do it.

    In the midst of the Tyler Hamilton situation from the Games, I hit the all time low in terms of tolerance. I am not sure I even want to be involved in sport,

  • #16111

    sub3marathon
    Member

    I keep saying to myself that I am just going to stop watching sports and just run for myself, but alas I cannot do it.

    In the midst of the Tyler Hamilton situation from the Games, I hit the all time low in terms of tolerance. I am not sure I even want to be involved in sport,

  • #16010

    sub3marathon
    Member
    Bart wrote:

    For me, it keeps coming back to this: I’m not convinced that anybody is clean. Are you? And do you care?

    It’s easy to get frustrated by all the doping scandals and it would be nice not to care. However, if you care about sports, you need to care about doping. Keeping sports clean is necessary to protect the accomplishments of the athletes who built the sport and to protect the current athletes who are clean.

    Bart

    Many of those athletes who built the sport might have been doping as well.

  • #16112

    sub3marathon
    Member
    Bart wrote:

    For me, it keeps coming back to this: I’m not convinced that anybody is clean. Are you? And do you care?

    It’s easy to get frustrated by all the doping scandals and it would be nice not to care. However, if you care about sports, you need to care about doping. Keeping sports clean is necessary to protect the accomplishments of the athletes who built the sport and to protect the current athletes who are clean.

    Bart

    Many of those athletes who built the sport might have been doping as well.

  • #16011

    sub3marathon
    Member
    runnerdude wrote:

    if you care about sports, you need to care about doping. Keeping sports clean is necessary to protect the accomplishments of the athletes who built the sport and to protect the current athletes who are clean.

    Exactly. In addition, if you allow for things that may not seem too egregious now, you’re opening the door for more outrageous drugs, processes and substances in the future. We could wind up with athletes who really are genetic freaks who are engineered for maximum performance that isn’t even linked to desire & competitiveness – the very qualities that make Brett Favre such a great football player, Ed.

    Didn’t Favre have a problem with booze and pain medications? Wouldn’t pain medications classify as performance enhancers? The whole situation does get tricky.

  • #16113

    sub3marathon
    Member
    runnerdude wrote:

    if you care about sports, you need to care about doping. Keeping sports clean is necessary to protect the accomplishments of the athletes who built the sport and to protect the current athletes who are clean.

    Exactly. In addition, if you allow for things that may not seem too egregious now, you’re opening the door for more outrageous drugs, processes and substances in the future. We could wind up with athletes who really are genetic freaks who are engineered for maximum performance that isn’t even linked to desire & competitiveness – the very qualities that make Brett Favre such a great football player, Ed.

    Didn’t Favre have a problem with booze and pain medications? Wouldn’t pain medications classify as performance enhancers? The whole situation does get tricky.

  • #16012

    sub3marathon
    Member
    Ed 1 wrote:
    Do we need to be these players guardian angles? I do not know. I guess that I do not care what happens to people who make those types of decisions. I am working on changing that way of thinking mainly because of the fervor that you all had in stopping me from trying to train at those 6 minute miles. You cared that a decision I was making would hurt me – I should return that favor to others in the sporting world.

    I do care about the records and all that, built by clean athletes – take for example Barry Bonds versus Hank Arron. Hank Arron never grew magically in size over an off season like Barry did. Barry and other players refuse to allow testing (I think we all know why). When Barry breaks the record it will not be true in my opinion.

    While the MLB testing is lame, Bonds was just tested for steroids.

    Bonds will always have a question mark about his recent performances. The real shame is that he was on his way to being considered a great player even before his connection to BALCO. Even when he was a Pirate he was a “5 tool player”. Of course, except in the playoffs!!!! GO BRAVES

  • #16114

    sub3marathon
    Member
    Ed 1 wrote:
    Do we need to be these players guardian angles? I do not know. I guess that I do not care what happens to people who make those types of decisions. I am working on changing that way of thinking mainly because of the fervor that you all had in stopping me from trying to train at those 6 minute miles. You cared that a decision I was making would hurt me – I should return that favor to others in the sporting world.

    I do care about the records and all that, built by clean athletes – take for example Barry Bonds versus Hank Arron. Hank Arron never grew magically in size over an off season like Barry did. Barry and other players refuse to allow testing (I think we all know why). When Barry breaks the record it will not be true in my opinion.

    While the MLB testing is lame, Bonds was just tested for steroids.

    Bonds will always have a question mark about his recent performances. The real shame is that he was on his way to being considered a great player even before his connection to BALCO. Even when he was a Pirate he was a “5 tool player”. Of course, except in the playoffs!!!! GO BRAVES

  • #16013

    sub3marathon
    Member
    Ryan wrote:
    OK, now that we have a few opinions out there, I thought I’d weigh in on the topic.

    First off, I understand where the author is coming from. I can see where it is very hard to believe that any top level professional athlete in any sport is clean, especially with the doping news that has come up over the past year or so. That said, I’m sure the quote that I pulled was a deliberate attention grabbing exaggeration. I’m sure there are clean athletes out there but it is getting increasingly hard, if not simply impossible, to know who might be clean and who might be using.

    I also understand his statement “Do you care?” although I think this is another attention grabber (and yes, I purposely used those attention grabbers to get attention and spur discussion here). I hope people do care. When watching a race, I hope people aren’t thinking this race is a sham, this guy and that guy and this other guy are all dirty so it’s meaningless. At that point in time, I hope everyone can enjoy the excitement of the competition. However, when it comes to what this means to our sport and our future stars, I hope it does matter to all of us.

    Whenever the drug discussion comes up, someone usually shows up and asks why drugs are even banned. Just allow everything to go and you don’t have to worry about the expenses and bad press associated with tests and positive results. It works for baseball after all, right? Heck, remember last year when they started drug testing? Only in season and the players knew about the tests ahead of time and still 7% of them tested positive. Read that again, 7% of them tested positive when they knew when the tests were going to take place. Still, T&F with a positive rate of well below 1% when the athletes don’t know they are going to be tested gets all the press for dirty athletes because of suspensions and an appeals process that drags on forever. Of course, recently, we have been seeing that athletes in the sports that do little to no drug testing have also been getting this bad press so hopefully views are changing.

    While it’s a nice thought to say just allow anything, don’t governing bodies have some responsibility to their athletes and, most importantly, children who aspire to be the next star? I believe they do. Even though there will always be undetectable drugs, it just seems right to take a stance of not allowing drugs that can be dangerous. Of course, some banned substances aren’t all that dangerous (remember, Sudafed has a banned substance) and some substances that could be dangerous aren’t banned. What about that? Well, you do have to draw the line somewhere and that line, in general right now, seems to be the line between natural and man-made. If you can get something naturally from your diet or surroundings, even if it does improve your performance, it is not banned except at outrageous levels. If you can not get it naturally and it does improve your performance, it is banned. To me, this seems as good as any other option of where to draw the line.

    Anytime there is record setting performance, some group of people is going to wonder if the person was doping.

    The 1% stat in athletics is misleading. Look at how few athletes are tested out of competition. US, Norway and Australia have probably the most widespread testing system. I doubt all the rest of the countries combined test as many athletes as these 3 countries do out of comp.

    I do not fall into the allow anything camp and am glad that caffeine and pseudoephedrine are off the in competition lists (they were only banned previously in competiition). The problem is that the resources are not on the anti-doping side sufficiently, IMHO.

  • #16115

    sub3marathon
    Member
    Ryan wrote:
    OK, now that we have a few opinions out there, I thought I’d weigh in on the topic.

    First off, I understand where the author is coming from. I can see where it is very hard to believe that any top level professional athlete in any sport is clean, especially with the doping news that has come up over the past year or so. That said, I’m sure the quote that I pulled was a deliberate attention grabbing exaggeration. I’m sure there are clean athletes out there but it is getting increasingly hard, if not simply impossible, to know who might be clean and who might be using.

    I also understand his statement “Do you care?” although I think this is another attention grabber (and yes, I purposely used those attention grabbers to get attention and spur discussion here). I hope people do care. When watching a race, I hope people aren’t thinking this race is a sham, this guy and that guy and this other guy are all dirty so it’s meaningless. At that point in time, I hope everyone can enjoy the excitement of the competition. However, when it comes to what this means to our sport and our future stars, I hope it does matter to all of us.

    Whenever the drug discussion comes up, someone usually shows up and asks why drugs are even banned. Just allow everything to go and you don’t have to worry about the expenses and bad press associated with tests and positive results. It works for baseball after all, right? Heck, remember last year when they started drug testing? Only in season and the players knew about the tests ahead of time and still 7% of them tested positive. Read that again, 7% of them tested positive when they knew when the tests were going to take place. Still, T&F with a positive rate of well below 1% when the athletes don’t know they are going to be tested gets all the press for dirty athletes because of suspensions and an appeals process that drags on forever. Of course, recently, we have been seeing that athletes in the sports that do little to no drug testing have also been getting this bad press so hopefully views are changing.

    While it’s a nice thought to say just allow anything, don’t governing bodies have some responsibility to their athletes and, most importantly, children who aspire to be the next star? I believe they do. Even though there will always be undetectable drugs, it just seems right to take a stance of not allowing drugs that can be dangerous. Of course, some banned substances aren’t all that dangerous (remember, Sudafed has a banned substance) and some substances that could be dangerous aren’t banned. What about that? Well, you do have to draw the line somewhere and that line, in general right now, seems to be the line between natural and man-made. If you can get something naturally from your diet or surroundings, even if it does improve your performance, it is not banned except at outrageous levels. If you can not get it naturally and it does improve your performance, it is banned. To me, this seems as good as any other option of where to draw the line.

    Anytime there is record setting performance, some group of people is going to wonder if the person was doping.

    The 1% stat in athletics is misleading. Look at how few athletes are tested out of competition. US, Norway and Australia have probably the most widespread testing system. I doubt all the rest of the countries combined test as many athletes as these 3 countries do out of comp.

    I do not fall into the allow anything camp and am glad that caffeine and pseudoephedrine are off the in competition lists (they were only banned previously in competiition). The problem is that the resources are not on the anti-doping side sufficiently, IMHO.

  • #16014

    runnerdude
    Member

    Didn’t Favre have a problem with booze and pain medications? Wouldn’t pain medications classify as performance enhancers?

    yeah, in that sentence I was mostly kidding with Ed. My point though, is that allowing people to take anything and everything would result in top performers in sports being the equivalent of the female east German & Soviet shotputters of the 1970s and 1980s – athletes who could win their events without even trying hard because their bodies were so capable of superhuman performances.

  • #16116

    runnerdude
    Member

    Didn’t Favre have a problem with booze and pain medications? Wouldn’t pain medications classify as performance enhancers?

    yeah, in that sentence I was mostly kidding with Ed. My point though, is that allowing people to take anything and everything would result in top performers in sports being the equivalent of the female east German & Soviet shotputters of the 1970s and 1980s – athletes who could win their events without even trying hard because their bodies were so capable of superhuman performances.

  • #16015

    Ryan
    Keymaster
    sub3marathon wrote:
    The 1% stat in athletics is misleading.

    No more misleading than the 7% stat from baseball. Athletes knew less in advance of their tests than baseball players, giving them less of a chance to “get clean”. Of course, they did have more of an incentive to “get clean” since there was no punishment for the baseball players.

  • #16117

    Ryan
    Keymaster
    sub3marathon wrote:
    The 1% stat in athletics is misleading.

    No more misleading than the 7% stat from baseball. Athletes knew less in advance of their tests than baseball players, giving them less of a chance to “get clean”. Of course, they did have more of an incentive to “get clean” since there was no punishment for the baseball players.

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