Just can’t get traction – Training

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This topic contains 31 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  WI MTP 11 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #6551

    WI MTP
    Member

    Ever since end of April – I just can't string and length of good training together.

    I continue to be at a good aerobic place since end of April – My bodies primed to crank out a good 8-12 weeks of training to get back to last years form and above, but I just can't get more than 1 week of consistent work done.

    Sometimes its sleeping in, a lot of times poor hydration or eating puts me in a place to not be successful.  Sometimes a lack of motivation.  the 2 results – A lack of speed and extra weight.

    Now here I sit 6 weeks and a few days before LFM – I've always managed to peak (New PR) for fall marathon and I need to be perfect  the next 6 weeks and it is still unlikely.

    I made a decision to race less this year – I wonder if my lack of motivation if because of that.

    When I get out and run – I still enjoy it, I just lack focus …

    A little of a rant … A little of a call for help

    Thanks for reading

  • #23513

    r-at-work
    Member

    I'm with you… I can line up a few reasons for the extra pounds and seeming lack of motivation &  less then stellar MPW… my foot hurt, I was spending lots of afternoons driving my husband to doctor appointments, the weather was miserable, the gym where I can work out is even more miserable… but STRESS eating is a big one for me…

    and heck, I finished Boston (in April) so I felt that there wasn't much else to aspire to (for an old woman with a bad foot)…

    no excuses now, well okay, the gym is still miserable… and I have to ramp up slow enough to not cause any other problems… the cross-training to drop the pounds I put on should have me motivated, nah… some times it's just like that… and I wish I could say that I will soon be running enough miles to drop the weight easily, in fact I will say it and hope I'm right…

    myself I'm thinking about the OBX marathon, small, relatively close and possibly enough time to train as long as I consider it a reason to get my husband to take a short vacation and not another BQ quest, that can wait till other things in my life settle down a bit and I get to the next age group, after all Boston isn't going anywhere… I can take my time to build miles…

    but you on the other hand might want to re-assess you goal for this fall… or not.. I'm sure others on this board can give you ideasto kick that training up a notch… but remember it's really only 4 weeks of training as you will need two weeks (at least) to taper… good luck…
    -Rita

  • #23514

    ed
    Participant

    This is something that I might need to focus on – and that is not having a focus.  It might be that not being where you want to be is causing some depression and therefore a lack of motivation (desire to sleep in, eating comfort foods etc. . ).

    I also enjoy being out there running (or on the mill).

    I am starting to think about what I am doing instead of what I am not achieving and getting up earlier/staying up later is getting easier.  (Even though I am getting only about 5 hours of sleep a day)  I do not know if this is a trend that will last or not but it is working right now. 

  • #23515

    SBSpartan
    Member

    You aren't human if you don't dread doing even the things you love sometimes.

    The workouts you do when you have the least desire are the best workouts.  You need that kind of mental toughness when you run distances.

  • #23516

    SBSpartan
    Member

    I just thought of something else.

    Most of the time I read this board I get the feeling that many people might be over concerned with, training schedules, time, food, rest, goals, PR's…blah blah.  After a while everything gets old.  While I agree, you need to have goals, why not change the goal?

    Try just going out for a run.  Sign up for a marathon with a friend and turn it into a vacation.  Don't pile up the miles so you can put your head down and go for a PR.  Run slower than normal…look around, talk to people, talk to your friend, get your medal, have a post race beer, have 6 post race beers.

    Maybe changing the idea of what your goals can be will refresh things for you?

    Just a thought from a guy who doesn't think about PR's very often but likes to run marathons.

  • #23517

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Everyone falls into a funk sometimes. It's only natural once you've been running for at least a few years. Sometimes, you have to just gut it out like you might have to in this case since you're 6 weeks out from Lakefront. In other cases, it could be a sign that you need to change things up. Do more (or fewer) races, do races of different distances, do something completely different, maybe just take a break. What you need to break out of that funk can vary depending on who you are and why you are in that funk.

    Whatever the scenario for you, know that you aren't alone. I'd have to believe that anyone who has been running consistently for at least a few years and says they haven't gone through that funk is lying.

  • #23518

    WI MTP
    Member

    All are right in their own way.

    My job is not so satisfying – Pay is good and it gives me time to run.

    I have sacrificed other things I enjoy doing to run lots of miles.

    I need to learn to run for the joy of running –  Some day PRs will be a thing of the past.

    I need to mix it up a little – Here was my plan
    LFM – 10/07
    Houston – 1/08
    Boston – 4/08
    Ice Age – 50M 5/08
    FANS 24 hour 6/08

    I am always in training for the next marathon – The only reason I added the 50M and 24 hour was to change things up – I suppose I should skip Houston – Buy a new snowmobile and have fun the winter and just run Boston for fun.

    I will have to think about all of this on my next long run –

    Thanks all –

  • #23519

    SBSpartan
    Member

    You don't have to skip Houston.  Go and have fun with it.  Use it as a long slow training run.  It might do you a lot of good to experience a race in a different way.

    One of my favorite races was one where my buddy just wasn't feeling it and told me he needed my help.  We were at about mile 18 and I could have killed my PR.  But we went on the trip together so we were running together.  He is a great runner but had a horrible day.  I ran a lot slower that I could have but stayed with him.

    Easily the best time I have ever had in a race.  4:08 later we crossed the line and he puked.  I haven't stopped making fun of him for that.

  • #23520

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    How often do you do shorter races? Have you ever keyed on shorter races? They may not carry the same “prestige” to some (though I strongly disagree) as the marathon and ultras but they are challenging in their own way and can add quite a bit of spice to your running, not to mention help your marathon and longer events by refining your abilities at the closer to top-end speed range of the spectrum.

  • #23521

    WI MTP
    Member

    Usually 1 key other race a year.  But other years I raced 1-2 races each month – 5k-5M-10k – 16 races + 2-3 marathons

    YTD – I have racd 5 times less than last year –

    Other years I would “Kill” myself in workouts – Barely being able to walk after some morning runs the rest of the day.  This year I am trying to take a more practical approach – Get 90-95% of workout in – don't kill yourself – Theory is you will  be able to do quality more often.  Killing yourself is for races. 

    Reality – I am getting less quality workouts in (Lack of motivation)  I am having a harder time pushing the red line in races.  The benefit – I am consuming much less ibuprofen.  Many less ice buckets – I can walk normally around  work most days.

    Total YTD mileage is about the same as the last 2 years

  • #23522

    Double
    Member

    Hunker down.  You have 4 weeks left to train hard for Lakefront.  Look at what you need to key on and train towards that for 4 weeks.  I had to do a crash and burn type of training for Lakefront in 2004 and did this:

    8/22 – 5.7 (7:39)
    8/23 – 5.0 (8:00)
    8/24 – AM 4.4 easy PM 3.1 w/u, 6 x 800m (2:38,34,36,36,41,39) and 3.1 c/d
    8/25 – 10.5 (7:55)
    8/26 – OFF
    8/27 – 12.0 (7:27)
    8/28 – 3.0 w/u, 14.0 (6:16)

    8/29 – 18.0 (7:35)
    8/30 – 4.3 (8:22)
    8/31 – 3.0 w/u, 6 x 600m (1:57,55,56,55,53,53) and 5.0 c/d.
    9/1  –  12.0 (7:03)
    9/2  –  6.2 (7:59)
    9/3  –  3.5 (8:34)
    9/4  –  3.0 w/u, 20k (6:07) and 5.0 c/d.

    9/5 – 16.0 (7:42)
    9/6 – 8.2 (8:01)
    9/7 – 3.1 w/u, 6 x 800m (2:35,37,33,34,33,29) and 3.1 c/d.
    9/8 – 13.1 (7:40)
    9/9 – OFF
    9/10 – 5.5 (8:21)
    9/11 – 2.5 w/u, 5k (16:49) and 1.0 c/d.

    9/12 – 20.0 (6:44)
    9/13 – 5.0 (7:42)
    9/14 – 10.0 w/ 6 x 4:00 hard w/ 2:00 easy
    9/15 – OFF
    9/16 – 8.0 (7:30)
    9/17 – 5.6 (8:02)
    9/18 – 3.0 w/u, 8k (28:42) and 2.0 c/d.

    9/19 – 17.3 (7:38)
    9/20 – OFF
    9/21 – 5.0 (8:00) w/ 8 strides
    9/22 – 5.0 (8:24)
    9/23 – 5.0 (7:17) w/ 6 strides
    9/24 – 3.3 (7:40) and bowled a 226
    9/25 – 2.8 w/u, 8k (27:42) and 0.4 c/d.

    9/26 – 11.3 (7:48)
    9/27 – OFF
    9/28 – 4.0 (7:50)
    9/29 – 2.0 w/u, 2.0 (12:09) and 2.0 c/d.
    9/30 – OFF
    10/1 – 4.1 (7:56) w/ 5 strides
    10/2 – 2.0 (8:00)

    10/3 – Lakefront, 0.5 w/u, 2:46:52 for 5th overall on a very into the wind effort

  • #23523

    WI MTP
    Member

    Double – Thanks for the encouragement – You know me – I was the guy that ran with Mr. Ogutu the whole way in 2005 to have  good old George put a 6 second move on me the last mile 🙂  I do not see George signed up?

    My plan is to continue with higher mileage + Marathon Pace + LAT Pace this week and next and then lighten up on the mileage and add Vo2 max and more intensity up to LFM. 

    8/20 10.5 @ 7:30 pace
    8/21 4 easy at lunch / 23 @  7:45 pace PM
    8/22 10 easy am @ 7:30 / 6 recovery pm @ 8:00
    8/23 16.5 easy am @ 7:30 / 5 recovery pm
    8/24  16 with 4 @ T am / 5 recovery pm
    8/25 10 easy am
    8/26 22 with 12 @ MP am

    Lower Mileage / more intensity will look like

    M 14 with 6×1200 @ Vo2 max
    T 8 easy
    W 15 with 5×[email protected] or somthing T pace
    TH 8 easy
    Fr 10easy
    SA 20-22 with [email protected]
    Su 8 easy

  • #23524

    WI MTP
    Member

    One thought – I have always felt good about my training by late july early august for fall marathon – I have likely peaked 3-5 weeks early and been a little stale.

    If I want to think possitive – I am primed to peak exactly at the right time  ;D

    With what has happened to Jenny Crain – I realized this morning what a gift it is to be able to run.  (From God, my wife & Family)  I need to appreciate that gift!

  • #23525

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    One thought – I have always felt good about my training by late july early august for fall marathon – I have likely peaked 3-5 weeks early and been a little stale.

    I often do the same thing. I think I try to fit too much into one training cycle and end up pushing myself a bit over the edge. Because of this, I do tend to consider it a positive when I feel like I'm a bit behind schedule. Maybe this will be a good thing for you.

  • #23526

    sueruns
    Member

    MTP-

    Less Mileage.  More shorter races. (of course, that's difficult between Oct and April).  But it does look like you want to move from the marathon to ultra.  I still would probably NOT do Houston and work on speed for Boston.  You have a HUGE aerobic base, if you never did another long run, between Lakefront and Houston, you'd probably still be okay.  You're gonna run 2:45-2:48 until you push your high-end, though.

    At your fitness, I'd guesstimate that your easy runs are a little easy at 7:30, I'd figure something more like 7:10-7:15, but really not a big deal if you're not dogging it on Tempo runs.  If you're looking to PR, I'd worry less about those long, slow miles and fine tune T and MP…and sleep in more.  You “know” you have to do something different or you are going to run your predictable time.

    Seriously, Double's C&B plan could work for you.

  • #23527

    WI MTP
    Member

    Sue – I hear you, I understand – generally – But …  I am not bought in … not because you are not right, but to let go of the old and accept the new – hard – hard – hard.

    I looked again at Double's 2004 plan – And there was some  very good speed … and speed on long runs.

    I will finish out this week and have to decide where to go from here.

    On the speed of easy runs – It has worried me for awhile.  Last year I had to hold myself back most runs (Keeping the purpose of the run in Mind).  I often was doing a 22 mile -11 out in 7:15-7:30 and 11 in 6:30-6:45 without strain.  I also often did a 4 mile FF on runs or at least a last mile run to the barn FF.  This year I have no pep, when I try and crank up speed – Hard to get Oxygen.

    I've written it off to humidity, poor hydration and eating, but I am starting to wonder if I should have my blood checked out.

  • #23528

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Sue brings up a good point. There's a time to pound out the miles, there's a time to hammer it with the speed. Without a balance of both, your race performances will stagnate.

    I wouldn't worry about the paces of those long runs. Look at what you said you were doing last year. The first 11 of a 22 miler around 30-45 seconds slower than marathon pace, the final 11 at or faster than marathon pace. That's a lot of pace for a long run, you don't need that much in that run. Also, don't discount the humidity. It's been beating me to a pulp. I know things will come around hopefully soon as the cool, crisp fall days settle in. The same will happen for you.

  • #23529

    sueruns
    Member

    Sue – I hear you, I understand – generally – But …  I am not bought in … not because you are not right, but to let go of the old and accept the new – hard – hard – hard.

    I looked again at Double's 2004 plan – And there was some  very good speed … and speed on long runs.

    I will finish out this week and have to decide where to go from here.

    On the speed of easy runs – It has worried me for awhile.  Last year I had to hold myself back most runs (Keeping the purpose of the run in Mind).  I often was doing a 22 mile -11 out in 7:15-7:30 and 11 in 6:30-6:45 without strain.  I also often did a 4 mile FF on runs or at least a last mile run to the barn FF.  This year I have no pep, when I try and crank up speed – Hard to get Oxygen.

    I've written it off to humidity, poor hydration and eating, but I am starting to wonder if I should have my blood checked out.

    yes, have the blood work done.  And I even question your pace on those runs.  6:30 – 6:45 is not fast enough when you're looking to PR.  I know what you're having a hard time with.  To go the route of Double you will feel like you aren't doing enough.  I wish you could buy into that.  If you scale back those long runs, you will have something in the tank to push your tempo pace.

    Your “hard to get Oxygen” is of some concern.  You are an aerobic machine and this shouldn't be of issue.  Either you can't stand being uncomfortable (which would mean more AT training), or maybe you do have some issues with your blood.  I know when I'm iron poor, my weight remains high when I know I should be heading toward “race weight”.  Your posts sound a little down, not like you at all.  Get the blood drawn and ease back this week.  Do you take a morning resting heart rate?  It can be a really good indicator of sickness, or overtraining if it spikes suddenly.

  • #23530

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    And I even question your pace on those runs.  6:30 – 6:45 is not fast enough when you're looking to PR.

    Marathon pace or faster for the second half of a 22 mile long run, after being within reach of marathon for the first half, isn't fast enough? Maybe I'm missing something and feel free to explain what I'm missing if I am but this, to me, seems like it's too fast if anything.

    Your “hard to get Oxygen” is of some concern.  You are an aerobic machine and this shouldn't be of issue.

    Actually, it's not all that surprising to me. When I'm going very heavily toward volume, any time I try to step up the pace I'm gasping for air. The problem is I haven't developed my VO2max/LT to be able to handle even slightly faster paces. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if this is WI MTP's problem, though I would second you in regards to the testing. It doesn't hurt to get a test done, just to make sure.

  • #23531

    sueruns
    Member

    And I even question your pace on those runs.  6:30 – 6:45 is not fast enough when you're looking to PR.

    Marathon pace or faster for the second half of a 22 mile long run, after being within reach of marathon for the first half, isn't fast enough? Maybe I'm missing something and feel free to explain what I'm missing if I am but this, to me, seems like it's too fast if anything.

    Your “hard to get Oxygen” is of some concern.  You are an aerobic machine and this shouldn't be of issue.

    Actually, it's not all that surprising to me. When I'm going very heavily toward volume, any time I try to step up the pace I'm gasping for air. The problem is I haven't developed my VO2max/LT to be able to handle even slightly faster paces. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if this is WI MTP's problem, though I would second you in regards to the testing. It doesn't hurt to get a test done, just to make sure.

    MTP's MP = <6:20, so that's why 6:30 isn't fast enough.  I feel he should run less at front-end miles (and I agree those miles can't be too slow), but he really should hit 6:20, and actually faster in my opinion if he wants a PR.  At his level of mileage, 18 miles at MP would not be insane.  (I've known someone to go 20 at MP  :o)

    I think we're on the same page for LT…MTP needs to work this.  I think his days of 100+ miles running comfortable need to be forgotten and he has to learn “uncomfort”.  He is running his 2:45 marathon in a “comfort zone”.  I would bet that he can run 2:45 at any give time with taper.  I really think he's running marathons in his aerobic zone.  If he works at his top end and pushes his AT further out, his MP pace will feel less “uncomfortable” come race day.  He's got the most massive aerobic base to springboard off of, I can't imagine what he can do with it, I think he's just got to work his LT/max.  A sub 2:40 can't be doing MP at 6:30, and MTP is sub 2:40 material.  He's put in the time and miles, just needs confidence about his speed.  I could be wrong…but I don't think so ;D.  My Canadian physiologist would love to get MTP's  blood lactate levels.

  • #23532

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    I guess I was looking at those times as last year's training paces and remembering that he said something about a 2:50 range marathon, which would be pretty much dead on 6:30 pace. To me, when doing a long run, doing the whole 22 miles so close to race pace and, on top of it, the last half at race pace or only slightly slower seems like a lot. Especially if that's the routine long run and not just a once or twice a month killer workout.

    To me, no doubt MTP has the base that warrants more in the workouts. When I was averaging 120 mpw, I was piling on the workouts like most people couldn't imagine. The combination of that volume and workouts like 3×3200 with 1:00 recovery in sub-11:00 had me in the shape of my life. I don't think it's any coincidence that I ran a 26:17 8k three weeks before finishing 3rd at Lakefront. The base wasn't in question after averaging 120 mpw for 4 months and I followed it up with the workouts that enabled me to both run 26:17 and survive the conditions in better shape than at least two NCAA All-Americans.

    I think we're saying about the same thing. MTP is the exact opposite of most people you see at marathons these days. While most have tipped the training balance significantly toward the speed angle and are sorely lacking adequate base, MTP has probably tipped the balance at least slightly toward base and could probably benefit from some speed at this point. Fortunately, speed comes and goes quickly so it's not too late for him to inject some serious intensity, if it would fit with his plan, and balance that scale out.

    I always feel a little strange getting in a discussion with someone about someone else's training in this way. Hopefilly, MTP doesn't mind us “picking on” him.

  • #23533

    sueruns
    Member

    I'd never pick on MTP,  I just stay out of his way  ;D

  • #23534

    WI MTP
    Member

    Sue – What test do I ask for?

    I don't pick on Sue either – I just live in fear when she's not injured and in shape.

    I will finish out this week and then emphasize speed (Vo2/LAT/MP) – But I can not go all the way and will still do 1 – 20 miler (Likely as part of MP run)  But cut down to the 90-110 from the 110-130 range.

    I know it is not as much cut down as suggested, but if speed work is not going well, I will cut more miles.

    I ran a few fast 400s at lunch in the rain today – Its always nice to run in
    rain.

    FYI – Current MP I am using is 6:19 (same as Fox Cities last fall) to Sue's point – When I feel good it is not too hard to hold it for 10+ miles – I need to feel good more often.

  • #23535

    WI MTP
    Member

    Ryan – You are not picking on my training – I always like getting someone elses perspective – Its hard to see the forest when you are knee deep in it.

    Thanks to all –

  • #23536

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Personally, I think a 20 mpw drop may feel pretty significant when coming from that high. I'd even feel a lot off a 10 mpw drop but I definitely think 20 is reasonable considering where you are in your training. It sounds like you're on a good path, just have to get all the pieces in place and I have a feeling you'll be fine on race day. I would probably speed up the goal pace, though. You do want to go at least 6:10-6:15 pace, if not faster, don't you?

  • #23537

    Double
    Member

    I remember you and George running me into the ground.  That was a fun day.  It's always worth it when there is back and forth for miles.  I learned some stuff that day and I'm sure you did as well.  I was on the short end, but I was out there.

    I guess looking back, people would figure me as a guy who trained for ultras, but had a little speed as well.  I enjoy faster running, but don't really enjoy racing short distances.  It hurts too much for me.  There is a different pain threshold you have to endure for that stuff and I seldom like to go there.  These elements allowed me to run a few decent marathons on primarily lower mileage phases.

    I've learned that long distance racing has training elements in this order of priority:

    Weekly mileage
    The long run
    Strength
    Speed

    I had the top two down pretty well and was fairly adequate in the strength department before I would set aside about 12 weeks before a marathon.  Looking back, I favored training that made me stronger and I liked to cap it all of with speed through shorter time trials, intervals and racing.  I wasn't concerned about mileage and I tried to use the longer runs to build strength through faster efforts.  However, when I was tired a few days in a row I didn't hesitate to back off or go easier.

    Anyway, the reason I'm posting is my position was always getting on top of my speed.  I wasn't going to lose anything in the first two departments, I always felt like I was enhancing it.  I really felt that driving my 5k – 8k time trials or races quicker was huge.  When I could run 5:30 pace for a 5k by myself on the track I knew I was ready.  I like a 2-3 week taper, but I never minded racing a hard 8k up to the week before a marathon.

    I think the reason is simple.  It made running 6:20 miles seem fairly easy for a long time.  Especially rested and with the race juices flowing.  In fact, it can be hard to hold back.

    I've mentioned my marathon racing stategy numerous times on here.  I am a firm believer in the even pace method.  You have to have a very strong indication of what you are capable of.  Why else do we train to race marathons if we aren't trying to find the pace we can carry?  For me, I found out through these methods:

    What pace can I hold for a long time trial of 20k – 30k?
    What are my current race times at 10m – 13.1?
    What kind of pace can I hold for a long run 16-20 miles the day after a race or harder time trial?
    How's my short stuff coming?

    These elements +rest is what I trained around.  The rest took care of itself.  I knew what I was capable of, it was just a question of not trying to do too much on race day.  You also have to implement these training efforts and frequency based on your training the past year.  Hard to do.  I know.

    The last thing is knowing yourself in ways other people can't.  We all have the intangibles, both good and bad.  Don't ignore them.

    My personal opinion about myself was I could train relatively light, 60-70 miles a week and come within about 2-5 minutes of what I could have done on a huge 6-12 month, marathon only focus.  Part of that was I never feared the distance.  I was working down to the marathon.  I wasn't trying to parlay my 5k – 10k racing into a fast marathon.  Though the best marathoners do, but not necessarily are the people you and I are running against on the weekends in Wisconsin.

    I'm not really telling you anything.  You have the experience, talent and drive to run successfully.  Lakefront is here soon.  Pull the remaining days into a bundle and figure out what you need to get ready.  I'll be back there with your 4 hour friend.

    Until next year that is.

  • #23538

    sueruns
    Member

    Mike-

    I don't know all the exact tests, but they tend to order a snapshot of iron levels, you have to make sure your doctor orders a test for iron “stores”  you could be fine today (and a doctor's “fine” and your fine will be different, you have to be a least +1 higher than normal) and have 0 stores.  And get the actual numbers, don't let his/her nurse call and say “you're normal”.

    here's the article that will help:  the one you need to request is the serum ferritin, they usually do the hematocrit and hemoglobin.  Good article, I know you like all this technical stuff, plus you have a SO that can explain to you  ;D. 

    http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/iron-deficiency.html

    I just read an article about the new STFR, it strangely higher in people that strength train versus endurance athletes.

  • #23539

    WI MTP
    Member

    Sue-
    My SO is a nurse at the Theda Clinic where my doctor is at – So there is no problems with getting actual numbers. 

    Thanks for all your help –

    We had a good one at FCM buildup.  Norb and Phil left early – Mikey S and myself had to run hard to track them down – At one point we were under 6:00s, we did not catch them until 13 miles –

    I did solitify my travel plans for packet pickup and race day.  If you decide to run – You are welcome with us.

  • #23540

    WI MTP
    Member

    An update – the 1st time in 4 years – I've cashed it in.

    I was tired of my hips hurting every run – I took last week off and may take this week off – I am not running LFM.  Then I will start from scratch for Boston.

    I appreciate everyone's help and insight.

  • #23541

    Double
    Member

    Sometimes you drink the wine and other times you stomp the grapes.  Sorry to hear your hurting.  I am cashing it in as well.  Tired of running in pain.  It's been hard to break the all or nothing mentality the past couple years.  I'll be 46 tomorrow.  Up to a few years ago, a few days off and things generally returned to normal.  I feel like I'm trying to drop a 442 into a volkswagen body.  It's just not working.

  • #23542

    sueruns
    Member

    seriously bad news!  Mike, maybe a few more days and try and do FC rather than LF and just call it a good taper, if you don't think you can further your injury.  Is it something injectable that get relieve the pain for a few weeks, run your marathon, and then work on recovery and therapy???  I guess it depends where you felt your training was at. 

    Double- ha! I could have written that.  Happy Birthday, old fart!!! 😀

  • #23543

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Sorry to hear that things aren't going so good for both of you. Hopefully, a break will see both of you refreshed and ready to go after things in a big way in the near future.

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