Lydiards base building method??

Welcome! Forums Running Forum Lydiards base building method??

This topic contains 10 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Manwich5 13 years, 1 month ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #2130

    Manwich5
    Member

    I have been reading around on the internet about lydiards training methods. I have decided to use lydiards ideas of base building. The one thing that wasnt clear to me was the pace on easy days. Lydiard says to run easy runs at a strong aerobic easy pace but not to the point where you start to build lactic acid in your legs. Are the long runs supposed to be that pace or a little slower? Another question is….on easy days what if i can not hold that strong easy pace every single easy day? do i shorten up the distance for a couple of days at the same pace until i can run the normal easy day distance at the lydiard pace?? For example lets say i run 8 miles at 6:50 pace on monday and 8 miles is my easy day distance. then say on tuesday my easy 6:50 mile pace dosn’t feel as easy to cover 8 miles with as it did monday. So would i just keep the same 6:50 mile pace but run only 4 miles for a few days until im feeling good enough to run 8 miles at 6:50 pace again? Is that what lydiard means? Keep the strong easy pace the same but only decrease the distance temperarily until you feel good enough to continue getting your miles in.

  • #17255

    Zeke
    Member
    Manwich5 wrote:
    Keep the strong easy pace the same but only decrease the distance temperarily until you feel good enough to continue getting your miles in.

    I’ve never seen ‘Lydiard’ and ‘decrease the distance’ in the same sentence. I agree that Lydiad is very vague when it comes to specific training paces. My interpretations are that you should run as many miles as possible. On the days you feel good, pick up the pace as your run progresses. This should feel natural, you should be forcing anything. On the days you feel like crap, slow down and make them your recovery days – but still get your mileage in.

    I think Lydiard would say mileage is the key, pace is secondary. Once you get your mileage ‘up there’ your pace will come down.

    This topic was discussed a little about 1-2 weeks ago. See this link…

    http://www.hillrunner.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1169

  • #17256

    Manwich5
    Member

    He did say that you will still benefit from running slowly it will just take longer than running at a strong steady aerobic pace to obtain aerobic fitness and that you should finish each of your runs pleasantly tired. I think he is saying run your base mileage at a good effort that does not promote the build up of lactic acid in your legs and you should not be huffing and puffing at the end of your run. I say just let your legs and lungs do the talking, if your legs are feeling really tired early in the run and your are breathing pretty hard then you are not running a strong steady aerobic pace but rather a pace that will negatively affect your aerobic fitness or base building gains. If your legs are feeling sluggish after a long run then just run slower than normal on your runs for 1 or two days until they feel recharged again. Keep these considerations in mind, start your mileage off at a reasonably easy amount of miles per week according to ones fitness level, and pretty soon you will be able to run alot more miles per week at the same strong aerobic pace than when you started. Your strong aerobic pace will probably naturally get faster in the process too. That is what I think when i think of lydiards method of base building.

  • #17257

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    I think one of the genius moves by Lydiard was that he was very vague when talking about paces. There is a very good reason for that. There is no formula, whether it be produced by race times, heart rate, the phase of the moon, barometric pressue, or some other method, that will give you the right pace for every day. What seems vague to most people is what I view as him saying what I simply call “listen to your body”.

    Manwich5 wrote:
    Another question is….on easy days what if i can not hold that strong easy pace every single easy day?

    Then you are not running at BAE. You are running too fast. The simple solution is to slow down.

    Manwich5 wrote:
    do i shorten up the distance for a couple of days at the same pace until i can run the normal easy day distance at the lydiard pace??

    No, you slow down to a pace that you can hold or at least come relatively close to on a regular basis. On those days that you are feeling better than expected, maybe you speed up a bit. If you are feeling worn down, slow down as much as needed. However, your daily runs should be in a pace range that you could hold every day while running 1-2 hours per day (read on for more specifics on how long to run).

    Manwich5 wrote:
    For example lets say i run 8 miles at 6:50 pace on monday and 8 miles is my easy day distance. then say on tuesday my easy 6:50 mile pace dosn’t feel as easy to cover 8 miles with as it did monday. So would i just keep the same 6:50 mile pace but run only 4 miles for a few days until im feeling good enough to run 8 miles at 6:50 pace again?

    In this case, your 6:50 pace is too fast. Slow down to a pace range that you can do on a regular basis. There’s nothing wrong with running 7:30 pace or slower. Heck, quite a few of my runs recently have been in the 7:30-8:00 pace range but I know they will get faster as my fitness improves.

    Manwich5 wrote:
    I think he is saying run your base mileage at a good effort that does not promote the build up of lactic acid in your legs and you should not be huffing and puffing at the end of your run. I say just let your legs and lungs do the talking, if your legs are feeling really tired early in the run and your are breathing pretty hard then you are not running a strong steady aerobic pace but rather a pace that will negatively affect your aerobic fitness or base building gains. If your legs are feeling sluggish after a long run then just run slower than normal on your runs for 1 or two days until they feel recharged again.

    I’d say that’s a pretty reasonable reading but I would say the last sentence is a bit off. If your legs are feeling sluggish and you can not continue running at roughly the same paces, chances are you ran too fast. Do what you said in order to get your legs feeling good again, then adjust your efforts as needed in order to avoid a recurrence of that situation.

    Lydiard’s suggestion is to run a set amount of time every day at BAE. Off the top of my head, I believe it’s 90 minutes Monday, 60 minutes Tuesday, 90-120 minutes Wednesday, 60 minutes Thursday, 90 minutes Friday, 120+ minutes Saturday, 60 minutes Sunday. These times should all be in one run per day at BAE effort. This is your baseline training. If you can not do runs of the prescribed duration for the given day, you are running faster than BAE. On top of this, add as much running as you can at whatever pace you want to run, just make sure these runs do not affect the duration of the key runs, although they may have a slight effect on the paces of those runs. These secondary runs are where “run as slow as you like” would come in.

  • #17258

    r-at-work
    Member

    along with what you guys are saying (that Lydiard says)… I remember reading (might have been from one of the reports of his last tour) that BESIDES your base mileage ‘at a steady pace’ he also suggested that you get in ‘as many miles at a slower pace’ (like a jog?) as possible and that this would help with recovery and aid building the mitocondria…

    if I find the link I’ll post it later…

    -Rita

  • #17259

    Ryan
    Keymaster
    r-at-work wrote:
    along with what you guys are saying (that Lydiard says)… I remember reading (might have been from one of the reports of his last tour) that BESIDES your base mileage ‘at a steady pace’ he also suggested that you get in ‘as many miles at a slower pace’ (like a jog?) as possible and that this would help with recovery and aid building the mitocondria…

    if I find the link I’ll post it later…

    -Rita

    Rita, maybe I did a poor job but that’s at least what I was attempting to refer to with the following comment I made at the end of my previous post:

    On top of this, add as much running as you can at whatever pace you want to run, just make sure these runs do not affect the duration of the key runs, although they may have a slight effect on the paces of those runs. These secondary runs are where “run as slow as you like” would come in.

  • #17260

    r-at-work
    Member

    Ryan…

    we must have posted at neat the same time, your comments weren’t there when I started my blurb… what you wrote was almost EXACTLY what I remember… oops 🙄

    -Rita

  • #17261

    Manwich5
    Member

    If you are tired and feeling sluggish the next running day couldn’t also be from running too long too soon and not necessarily from running too hard???

  • #17262

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Cut and pasted from the Lydiard Clinic:

    The total weekly mileage that you manage to do Will be governed by your climatic conditions and

    available time for training. However, it is important to realize this point; that it is not the distance that

    will stop you in training as much as the speeds. If you keep the running efforts to a level within your

    capabilities, then you will quickly be able to manage a large mileage. It is better to run a long way

    slowly rather than to curtail the mileage possible by running to fast.

  • #17263

    Manwich5
    Member

    Its all starting to make sense. One more thing I have been going all by time in building mileage. How would lydiard suggest on increasing mileage per week going by time?? would you increase by adding 5 minutes each day or just adding 15 minutes each week?

  • #17264

    GTF
    Member

    This is covered in section 3. Basically, it is up to you.

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.