- May 18, 2004 at 1:21 pm #1525
Well I have recruited three individuals who are training for Lakefront Marathon and they all begin the PSKI method of following directions, leaving races alone for the most part and submitting to being as simple as it gets. They all begin to follow PSKI drill instructions on Memorial Day weekend. They will all follow the Pfitz program, only I’ll tell them how fast, and when to go absoultely no faster. they will all be on the 18 week up to 70 mpw program. SIMPLE RIGHT?!
The brave contestants are Kooch, Jim Kirschbaum and Jamie WALZ. It would be a gas to see them all break 2:50. Kooch and Kriby are 2:57 and 2:58 PR’s respectively. Both ahve been sucked into training over their heads in the past. Walz is the X-factor. He has low 2:40 capability and sub 2:40 heart. He will be the easiest to train, he listens and he’s smart. Setnes has declared him TRAINABLE. He’s serious too, he’s already coming in at his racing weight of 189. This will be fun to be a part of.
Kirby should fare well, even though he will have his weak moments with races passing him by or having to race at less than race pace. But I have faith he’ll stick with me for at least one marathon cycle. Kirby is in his prime and has a load of talent, he’s overtapped, leaving him tapped out.
Then there’s Kooch. I offered him guidance and cheerleading along the way. He said he was locked in. Not two days went by and he’s trying to put together a 100mile trail relay team. 19 and 31 mile legs. Kooch will have to decide if he really wants to explore his marathon potential or keep playing in the sandbox. Here he’ll have a program laid out with Sundays off for the family, no thinking about anything but the next days run and enjoy it.
One thing is certain, If someone is breaking training I will not offer the polich guidance immediately. I want to see each one of these guys succeed. Anyone on the forum interested, I’d be happy to help or maybe if there is enough interest I’ll post the weeks workouts and progress for the participants. I too, will be in training but on a different cycle for NYC. I know the forum action helped keep me motivated for the training leading up to the 2002 Boston. Others seemed to train too hard too early. Myself and DD just steadily progressed to what we’d agree was a great day for a race.
To the fall marathon season and beyond. PSKI
- May 18, 2004 at 1:58 pm #14667
But I’m not running a marathon until Boston next April. I am trying to get in a fair amount of miles so I have a nice base built up prior to mid December, when I would begin a program. At this point without any other intervention (or injury), I would probably go with a beefed up version of the Hanson’s training plan that I did for last year’s Lakefront (3:06:51 for my debut). It would look something like this:
M – Easy run of 8-12 miles
T – either speed (3-4 miles of repeats) or strength (4-6 miles of LT intervals) workout, w/ appropriate w-u and c-d
W – Rest or extremely easy recovery day
R – Marathon Pace run of 7-12 miles
F – Recovery run of 6-10 miles
S – Long run of at least 12 miles, building up to 18 miles
N – Easy run of 7-10 miles
I may do 1 or 2 races in there, but at that time of year there’s not much, so I may not do anything. My mileage should start around 50 and top off at about 65 per week. I like this schedule b/c I travel every other Wednesday, so it’s the best rest day for me. Like Finnegan says below, I train by my lonesome as well, so I am very much open to having an overseer of my plan.
If I changed to a pfitz/pski program, what other benes would I get? I want to believe that 2:55 is a reachable goal for me. My biggest question is what I do from now until December in terms of training. I feel like 50 mpw at an easy pace (8:00 or so) with a few races here and there is a good route to go. Right now, the only thing I’m not doing is getting in long runs more than 10 miles. Let me know what you think pski! Thanks for the listen…
- May 18, 2004 at 2:02 pm #14668
I’d like to see the progress reports or whatever your stable is comfortable with you sharing. My target marathon is in January and I was looking to follow that plan (pfitz 18 week 70 mpw) or very similar. Not sure of a time goal yet, I know what I’d like to do but I’ll see where I’m at in August and then lock into something. I’m a lone wolfer so an online coach could be a good fit for me and I sometimes tend to drift off my training and start expirementing with something else. fine for basebuilding, probably not good for race training.
Explain to me or give an example of training over your head? I think I have an idea but it sounds like something I could easily fall into so I want to be sure of what it is as to avoid it.
Thanks, and good luck to Team Pski!
- May 18, 2004 at 2:24 pm #14669
Sounds fun, but I’m not doing a fall marathon. Keep us posted on the groups progress, especially Kooch. 😀 If you can get him to stick to the program, you should right a book.
- May 18, 2004 at 6:01 pm #14670
In Kooch’s defense, not that he needs it, I put the relay thought in his head because I thought he still wanted to get a 50 miler in after all the training he did this spring. So I offered to do a leg and suggested he find a third to do one of the 31 or 19 mile sections while he did the middle 50. I was not yet aware of his inclusion in the Pski school of training. I think he’ll be a good pupil this time around.
As the famous phrase goes, now you know the rest of the story.
- May 18, 2004 at 11:02 pm #14671
Very Cool! I think if you all listen to PSKI you’ll have PR’s! He is very good at peaking at the right time for a Thon. I would listen to everything he says and does. I will be watching the reports to learn more about the thon.
I have been laying low doing my own thing latley but having fun watching everybodys progress — very motivating ! Keep it up!
Keep it tight!
- May 19, 2004 at 1:30 pm #14672
To answer some questions, and answers.
LINZ, I too believe Kooch has a good chance to stick this time. I wouldn’t even try if I didn’t believe it was possible. He showed flashes of discipline this spring. Hey, I should of known you planted that seed! Without running the whole 50 mile, he’ll actually be in better shape to begin the training.
Peter, with that 3:06 under your belt and 10k speed I saw at Madison, 2:55 is a definite goal worth going for. With you and Finnegan, I can say I trained alot for Boston alone because of different work schedule with the rest of teh human race. The site and the program both helped keep the focus. Plus, Boston being my third try, was really what I wanted to do to the best of my ability.
Getting in over your head. What this means is sometimes Marathon training gets us in such great shape that we begin to latch on to faster paces than we should. We are cruising and don’t realize we’ve passed a point of diminishing returns or are peaking too soon before we realize what happened. It’s like watching kids play soccer, dribbling all over. I tell them the time to pass the ball is before you ever think you have to. Sometimes we get caught up in running faster because it feels good or we start running with certified 2:35 marathoners and get on the downslope way too early. The way for me, and I think anyone serious about it is to train to the time you want to achieve. Then you can actually measure personal success or failure. You go into the marathon, KNOWING what YOU are PREPARED for and this cannot be overemphasized. We’ll keep it fun. Hard work lies ahead, mostly keeping our head in the game. PSKI
- May 19, 2004 at 4:43 pm #14673
…you are the master motivator.
i was looking at the 18 wk program (70M) in pfitz’s book last nite. personally, i know i’ve got issues staying on a program for that length of time. i took a look at the 12 wk program (70M) and would likely jump on it or the Beck plan + 3 week Pfitz taper IF/WHEN i commit myself to lakefront.
hope to see you tonight at the striders meeting
- May 19, 2004 at 5:35 pm #14674
It’s your favorite Rite-Hite runner! Guess who?
I think Pfitzinger program is great. I’ve followed 3 times, and currently on my 4th. The first 2 times, I followed very closely and coincidently did alot of my training by myself and didnt get sucked into running workouts way harder than required. Those 2 build-ups resulted in 3 min, and 7 min PR’s. The 3rd build up and didnt follow it closely and ended up burned out by the fall, although had a great summer racing.
I’ll see if 4th times a charm this weekend in Green Bay.
The key Pfitz is to run within yourself. If you really look at the schedules there easier than what many people, including myself do/did. There’s very little speedwork, just lots of base, and Tempo runs. The Tempo’s are key!
- May 19, 2004 at 5:52 pm #14675
Well I’m glad I asked, because my interpretation would have been “picking a time for which you are not capable of…” Yours makes a whole lot of sense. Mine is, well to put it simply, is just poor planning.
If you have any advice for buildup to Pfitz’s 18 week plan, I’d love to hear it. Right now this is what i’m roughly doing or trying to do, having a 2 month old kid makes it tough sometimes. If I miss a day i try and make it one of my ez days.
M 4-6 EZ
T 6-8 ez w/ ez tempo for 30-40 minutes or a progession run. I might do 3-4 ez in the afternoon.
W 4-6 EZ
Th 8-10 at a faster pace than ez but not real fast.
F 9 kinda the same as Thursday
S 3-6 ez
Su 2 hours of running, sometimes ez, sometimes i pick it up the last few miles. picking it up for me is 7:30-7:45 mm. now that summer is here usually slower (i live in Houston, TX, it’s already getting real hot)
A try and throw in some (3-4 for 30 sec.) strides 2-3 times a week at the end of a run also….
- May 20, 2004 at 1:06 pm #14676
Peter and Finnegan, I have a little time to better answer your question about the question, what to do leading up to the program. I think just keeping your miles around 50 is plenty, slowly going higher as you approach the program without speedwork involved. I think some hill repeats, no more than a minute duration would be great during this period along with some slow end LT running. Leading into training cycles, I’ve found the direction I have previously received from Kevin Setnes to be of great help. Mon 30 min easy, Tue 2 mi tempo (All tempo runs 2mi wup/cdn), Wed 12, Thu 10, Fri 30 min easy, Sat 3-5 mi tempo, Sun 14-16. If you wanted some hill repeats substitute the tue tempo with them. This is a great build up cycle for 6-8 weeks pre program. Wed would be a gen aerobic run, and Thu easy. Sun easy too. tue tempo pace would be slightly faster than Sat, i.e. Tue slightly slower than 10k race pace. Sat about half Marathon pace. What to do leading up to the build-up ideally would be getting in a 10k to half marathon race and spilling your guts to see where your at. Wha-la, there are your training paces to begin working off of. Towrad the end and prior to Pfitz, try to race again to one, see the improvement in fitness, and two set the training bar again. Now it’s time to begin working toward the ultimate goal time. I don’t tinker with it unless someone, like DD is just effortlessly blowing away projections in workouts. I hope this is answering those questions. Of course prior to this pahse if you’d like your racing and doing whatever trips the trigger. Also in this pre-phase, your not worried about missing workouts. You take it easy on yourself, and I don’t like switching, but just picking up where I left off. A great way to keep track of your fitness direction, is to track one your weight and two a treadmill run I’ve discussed here before. One percent grade, 8:30 mile followed right up with an 8:00 min mile then check your Heart Rate. As you train, this HR should head downward then stablize before sinking again during the race prep phase. A good time to do it is after an easy day and as part of your warm-up for a tempo type work-out. The only feedback here that’s particularly helpful is if in two consecutive weeks that HR is climbing up, it may be time to scale back the pacing of workouts and try to nip any serious overtraining in the bud.
Hey Rite-Hite Matt Svuem, thanks for the testimonial. You need to add that those huge PR’s came on the heels of some already respectable marathon times and ultimately leaving you with that sub 2:50! In this range 3 and 7 minute PR’s are HUGE! Good Luck at Green Bay! PSKI
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