Mid week Semi Long runs

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This topic contains 14 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Anonymous 15 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #1115

    Anonymous

    Hey fella’s, it’s been quite some time since my last post although I’ve enjoyed keeping up with the progress of the site as well as individual running performances.

    Had a question for you guys.

    I recently commenced marathon training after a series of injuries. I’ve been following the advanced marathon program which calls for mid week semi long runs. I’m having a tough time working these into my schedule but I religously hit the VO2, LT and long runs. My overall mileage is consistent with the program by compensating on easy days. I typically will run 8-9 easy miles on these days.

    Any thoughts on what impact (if any) missing the medium distance runs might have on my performance.

  • #13052

    Zeke
    Member

    Steve,

    Nice to hear from you. I can’t answer your question specifically, but I think those mid-week medium runs are one of the keys to the marathon. I read recently, that there isn’t much of a difference in aerobic development between a 60 and 90 minute run. However, you get great gains from a 120 minute run. Therefore I think you’ll be much better off by increasing that mid-week run to 12-15 miles.

    When is your marathon? Just curious since you’re already doing VO2 stuff.

  • #13053

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Steve, I’m not totally sure of the importance of the runs. In 2002, I actually did very few, if any, midweek runs of more than 12 miles (about 80-85 minutes, give or take) but I was doing a lot of 12 milers. One thing I would question is if it’s possible you’re hitting the workouts a little too hard, which might be making the midweek long runs seem harder than they should. Just a thought to ponder.

    Zeke, do you know where you read that about the runs? I remember something similar about fat utilization but I don’t remember it going anywhere beyond that. Aerobic development seemed to be consistent. I’d be interesting in reading this if you knew where you got it from.

  • #13054

    Woody
    Member

    Steve,

    Good to hear your still alive and kickin!

    When I look back to my best training I did strictly for a thon was Pfitz advanced marathon on the 70 MPW or less, and I became very good at holding a pace, I was slow as shit, but I could go longer. A lot of it was those Med-long runs. I ran the marathon at 6:50’s that year and ran all those mid weekers 12-15 miles at 7:50 -8:00 min pace. Didn’t even know why at the time did it just because Pfitz said so 😉 I would cut out an easy day or take a day off on a short run day vs. missing a mid-week long run even if it was at a 9:00 pace. Soo to answer your question I think it would hurt your training if it’s for a thon

    Woody

  • #13055

    Zeke
    Member

    Zeke, do you know where you read that about the runs?

    Ryan,

    I want to say that it was somewhere in that Hadd article or one of the related threads on letsrun.com, but I can’t be certain. It’s something I read within the last 1-2 months. I’ll see if I can find it.

  • #13056

    Anonymous

    Training for the Jersey Shore Marathon on April 25th. I’ve completed 3 weeks of training.

    To answer Zeke’s question, I actually have not had any VO2 yet. I should have said planned to hit them.

    My issue is really squeezing these workouts into my schedule.

    My commute and family require time, so during the week I’m generally limited to 1 hr. runs. I find I can do the speed play and LT workouts fine but am having a hard time fitting in the mid week semi long.

    I appreciate all your comments. I sounds like I’d be well served to try and get them in some how.

  • #13057

    Zeke
    Member

    Steve,

    Try to do what you can. Maybe you can get in 12-15 every other week or every third week. Maybe you just focus on long runs, LT and VO2 this time around and keep good records of your progression. Then maybe next time around you train for a fall marathon and with the longer days, you’re able to get in 12-15 instead of 8-9. Again, keep good records and compare the two.

    Do the best you can, experiment, examine the results, make adjustments, repeat…

  • #13058

    Zeke
    Member

    Zeke, do you know where you read that about the runs? I remember something similar about fat utilization but I don’t remember it going anywhere beyond that. Aerobic development seemed to be consistent. I’d be interesting in reading this if you knew where you got it from.

    Ryan,

    If you look at the Hadd outline, go to part III. Towards the end of this section he states “Although Dudley found that 90 mins was not better than 60 mins, Holloszy had shown that 2 hrs was definitely better than one hour (which ties in nicely with Lydiard-type training recommendations that one 2hr run was better than 2 x 60 mins — you have to admit that the guy had great intuition born of his experience trying out different training on himself).”

    http://www.ffh.us/cn/hadd.htm

  • #13059

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Very interesting stuff. That really makes me rethink some things I’ve been doing. It also raises some questions but it definitely gives me things to think about.

    I guess, if I can ever find the time to sit down for an hour or two, I have to re-read this Hadd stuff. I must have skimmed over it a bit too quickly.

  • #13060

    Double
    Member

    Steve,

    From personal experience, I find the mid week long run to be beneficial in many ways:

    1. It forces me to move forward for approximately 1:50 minutes each week. I always complete these runs on how I feel and not by any set pace. This conditions not only my aerobic base, but makes my feet and tendons strong.

    2. Because of the volume and intensity of my Tuesday/Thursday workouts (15 a day on 2 runs, Tue = intervals, Thu = tempo) it keeps the paces in line and also teaches my body to learn how to run when tired.

    3. Eventually the 20+ mile runs or so are only a few more minutes than your mid weeker.

    I could probably think of more, but the bottom line is they make you tough.

    I have always been under the opinion that a vast amount of people can train a vast amount of ways and improve. I base my training for everything around two runs. A long run of generally 20 on Saturday and a mid weeker of 14. For many “serious” runners, that is half their weekly mileage.

    As funny as that seems.

  • #13061

    Anonymous

    ..do em…..pay less attention to the vo2 stuff and more to the midweek longish run. Just finished training, in Dec, with kiwi 2:13 guy (should be 2:10 as he has gone sub 28mins for 10km)…..only runs aboiut 100-110 miles per week, but he does 2 longish runs…..on wed he does 2hrs and on Sun he does 2:15-2:45…..hell his Wed long one is my long on for the week. Having said that he got me in the habit of doing a minumum 90 mins and often 1:40 on Weds….with 3 wrokouts tiewd somewhere in there……but these had to be scaled down in regards to intensity to be abke to get in the Wed run and still feel decent on the Thurs workout…..at first I was dead tired, but over time i began to get used to it…..

  • #13062

    magpie
    Member
    denton wrote:
    kiwi 2:13 guy (should be 2:10 as he has gone sub 28mins for 10km)…..

    would not be an aish escaping the harsh gunnison winter, would it? 😉

  • #13063

    Tyrone
    Member

    https://dnbrokers.net/ffh-us/

    HADD Training… dont know if this is what your looking for ryan..

  • #13064

    Tyrone
    Member

    didnt read the whole thread *shrug* haha

  • #13065

    Anonymous

    ..Jonathan Wyatt…consistent as all hell too…..unlike Aish…..

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