New article: Why Yasso 800s Are Overrated

Welcome! Forums Running Forum New article: Why Yasso 800s Are Overrated

This topic contains 22 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  Ryan 14 years, 4 months ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #1110

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    I’ve seen so many questions on forums recently about Yasso 800s that I decided it was time for me to quit posting the same thing for each question and simply write an article on why Yassos are overrated. Want to know what I have to say on Yassos? Check the link below. As always, feel free to discuss…

    http://www.hillrunner.com/training/thoughts/yasso.html

  • #13013

    Woody
    Member

    IMHO, that article says it all, that’s exactlly what I’ve found personally in my training. I ran 10 X 800 4 weeks out from chicago I averaged 2:47 with a 2:00 min rest not 2:47, but ran 2:59:30. Why? Because, admittingly I am poorly trained aerobically!!!!!

    Drow

  • #13014

    Anonymous

    Hello,

    I read your post and I totally agree. I am an x-college 800m runner and I use to do a 8x800m workout at 2:42 per 800m. And let me tell you there is no way in hell I could run a 2:42 marathon!!

  • #13015

    Tyrone
    Member

    Figures…

    RW stuff is always crap..

  • #13016

    ferris
    Member

    Nice article, Ryan,I couldn’t agree more. You backed up your opinions with sound scientific reasoning. I tried Yasso’s a few years ago and averaged 2:30….went to Grandmas, crashed and burned and struggled home in 2:40, why? because I wasn’t trained properly for the distance.

    As for RW…..I read one a few weeks ago in the airport(I have to be REALLY bored to read RW) and they had this “NEW SECRET WORKOUT FOM EUROPE”…it ended up being mile repeats.

    Not to poo-poo RW too much, though. They do help a LOT of runners get better.

  • #13017

    Zeke
    Member

    “NEW SECRET WORKOUT FOM EUROPE”…it ended up being mile repeats.

    You’d think a Eurpoean workout would be metric, like repeat Ks, not miles.

    I know it’s easy to rip on RW, but I don’t get a subscription, so I won’t. I did recently ask my dad if he still had his old running logs, from the early 80s. His search didn’t turn up his logs, but he found a bunch of old RW articles and a couple of entire magazines. These are from ’80 and ’81 and have 1 page essays from Lydiard, Clayton, Sheehan, Henderson and Burfoot, etc. In one article I read this morning Clayton is talking about his build-up prior to his marathon WR. He mentions 160 mile weeks. I wonder when the last time anything like that was printed in RW?

  • #13018

    Ryan
    Keymaster
    Zeke wrote:
    You’d think a Eurpoean workout would be metric, like repeat Ks, not miles.

    I was thinking the same thing.

    Zeke wrote:
    I know it’s easy to rip on RW, but I don’t get a subscription, so I won’t. I did recently ask my dad if he still had his old running logs, from the early 80s. His search didn’t turn up his logs, but he found a bunch of old RW articles and a couple of entire magazines. These are from ’80 and ’81 and have 1 page essays from Lydiard, Clayton, Sheehan, Henderson and Burfoot, etc. In one article I read this morning Clayton is talking about his build-up prior to his marathon WR. He mentions 160 mile weeks. I wonder when the last time anything like that was printed in RW?

    Did you hear the latest thing with RW? They brought in a new head man from Men’s Health magazine and one of the first thing he did was say Joe Henderson is gone. The one column that offered something (no matter how much or little) for competitive runners was the first thing to go. I believe the new guy said something about they plan on offering more on the road type pieces and more coverage like they gave to P Diddy. Wonderful. Another step along the evolution RW has been going through for a good 2 decades. How long until RW has no running related content whatsoever? Oh well, I’ve digressed far enough for now.

  • #13019

    Zeke
    Member

    Did you hear the latest thing with RW? They brought in a new head man from Men’s Health magazine and one of the first thing he did was say Joe Henderson is gone.

    I did hear about this. Doesn’t sound like too many people were happy about it on the RW forums. Speaking of which, I’m curious how you find time to post so much there. I thought I spent a lot of time on the forums, but you are everywhere Ryan.

  • #13020

    Ryan
    Keymaster
    Zeke wrote:
    Speaking of which, I’m curious how you find time to post so much there.

    It goes in cycles. At the moment, work is consisting of a lot of waiting for the program to execute so I can make sure the results are right. Nothing really to do while it’s executing. Someone mentioned this weekend. Well, I was sitting home this weekend with a cold trying to get rest so I had nothing better to do (which, at times, I feel is saying a lot).

  • #13021

    Anonymous

    ..IMHO…

    1) RW has been a joke a ot longer than Henderson has been there for the past yrs. I am surprised he lasted so long…..I know i couldn’t

    2) I have never paid much attention to yasso 800’s for one basic reason…..it’s a joke….it’s nothing more than some guy (who just happens to be part of a running magazine … and sucks) who put his favourite workout. If anyone here had the opportunity to put there fav workout in a running mag and called it by there name, it/he/she would famous too….. ever read John parker’s tirade/rant on Jim Fixx and you’ll understand WHAT I AM GETTING . It has nothing to do with whether your qualified to give a workout or even if the workout….sadly it’s all about PR, media and hype…..

  • #13022

    magpie
    Member
    Zeke wrote:

    “NEW SECRET WORKOUT FOM EUROPE”…it ended up being mile repeats.

    You’d think a Eurpoean workout would be metric, like repeat Ks, not miles.

    naturally, while the workout was originally likely 2k or 3k repeats, r.w. had to dumb it way down to fit in with their overall mission. 😉

  • #13023

    magpie
    Member
    ferris wrote:
    They do help a LOT of runners get better.

    they also contribute significantly to a lot of runners not being much better.

  • #13024

    magpie
    Member
    Ryan wrote:
    How long until RW has no running related content whatsoever?

    it has been true for well over a decade: r.w. is the people of running – lots of gloss, gossip, and headlines designed to be eye-catching at newsstands yet glaringly devoid of substance.

    those seeking training and inspiration from the printed word would be better-served looking to a select set of books.

  • #13025

    Zeke
    Member

    I was thinking the other day about how the US distance runners could close the gap on distance runners from Africans, Japanese, Spanish, etc. What if we started producing international versions of Runner’s World and shipping them to these countries?

    Speaking of content, here are some articles I came across from ’80-81…

    Masters of the mile: How did the UK come to rule track’s glamour event?

    The resurrection of Al Salazar

    Running your first marathon

    Running your first sub-3 hour marathon

    Running your best marathon

    Interval Training by Dellinger (third in a series of instrucive articles)

    The Total Runner by Dellinger (fourth in a series of instrucive articles)

    (I’m still looking for the first and second parts of the series)

    Runner’s World Exclusive interviews with people like Rodgers, Scott, Lydiard, etc.

    They used to also do a articles on famous people that ran, like actors, politicians, non-running athletes.

  • #13026

    pski
    Member

    I found Yasso’s to work and predict pretty much to a tee. I like Woody’s comment, 2:47’s with 2:00 min recoveries. Well, that made his workout much tougher than it should have been. That Al’s run taper didn’t help either. Don’t try to beat the system all the time. Marathon training is cumulative, not any one given day. Throw in Yasso’s with my other slow running and lot’s of it and it will work. Erhardt swears by the 800’s to and he’s run low 2:30s. I had a 19 plus 5k 3-4 weeks before the marathon. that week did Yassos in 2:58-3:00. Then hit 2:57. I’ll give them their due, alnog with the whole package. Alot of people can do the Yasso’s but it becomes like a race series instead of a workout. Then thye are left short if they expect it to work on marathon day. If you want to run longer, run slower. PSKI

  • #13027

    Anonymous

    They worked fairly well for me. I ran 3:05 for my Yasso’s and then ran a 3:09 marathon. There was a couple hills that I’d estimate cost me a couple minutes so perhaps I could have run a 3:07 or so on a level course.

  • #13028

    Anonymous

    I like Woody’s comment, 2:47’s with 2:00 min recoveries. Well, that made his workout much tougher than it should have been.

    Pski, are you doing these as a workout or as a predictor? I’m guessing a little bit of both. For me if I wanted to run these at 2:59 with a 2:59 rest it would have been no problem and it would have been very accurate. But When I do Yasso’s as a predictor I want to do just that. Run them as hard as I can making sure that all ten are pretty damn close on each 800, with maybe the last few a little faster. In fact with only a 2:00 min rest I most likely could have gone faster than what I did. I know I could of gone faster actually it was a perfect night that workout. Yasso’s to me are more of an anaerobic workout , then a Aerobic workout which explains Why a lot of runners including myself and the above post by Jennifer who was a 800 runner in college can run these faster then the prediction. I was in great 5k-8k shape during that workout ( anaerobic) so I did well . But for a marathon my aerobic condition was piss-poor. that’s why I ran 2:59:30 instead of 2:50. Also, with you you were in much better aerobic shape doing all the long slow stuff with a little speed thrown in. so you really couldn’t go any faster in the yasso’s (800’s) but could hold it all day long. Make sense! so it’s a much better predictor for you and anybody else in great aerobic shape. I would much rather run 1000-1200’s for marathon training, then 800’s.

    Cheers,

    Woody

  • #13029

    Woody
    Member

    so it’s a much better predictor for you and anybody else in great aerobic shape

    that’s basically my whole point , most runneres don’t spend the time to get in the proper aerobic shape for a thon and get mislead into believing then can run what ever the yasso’s predict and are surprised when they run slower.

  • #13030

    Ryan
    Keymaster
    Woody wrote:

    so it’s a much better predictor for you and anybody else in great aerobic shape

    that’s basically my whole point , most runneres don’t spend the time to get in the proper aerobic shape for a thon and get mislead into believing then can run what ever the yasso’s predict and are surprised when they run slower.

    This is also my whole point. For a few select people who have aerobic systems that are well developed enough to match their anaerobic fitness, this workout works. Personally, this workout would predict pretty well for me, within a 5 minute tolerance in most cases. However, these people with the well developed aerobic systems are rare. The vast majority of people are very much more well suited for the 5k and 800 meter repeats than they are for the marathon because of a lack of aerobic development.

    I never said Yassos would not work for anyone. I have and will always say that they will not work for the vast majority of people who are running marathons these days.

  • #13031

    Double
    Member

    If I had Woody’s talent, I’d burn mine.

  • #13032

    Woody
    Member

    I Totally agree! 😀

  • #13033

    Anonymous

    Woodman!! Your the goods!!! Hey I agree to a certain extent. Read about Yasso carefully. It says it takes into account being marathon trained and doing them correctly. Predictor or training??? Dude, I’ve said all along I train to a time goal. Then come hell or high water I do the work. I don’t just pull it out of the sky man, I have a ton of race history to help formulate those goals. I read the Lydiard article submitted by ZEKE, and he’s right on, but you know what, I don’t have that time, but I’m loving life!! Would have psoted sooner but crime is on a tear!!! PSKI

  • #13034

    Ryan
    Keymaster
    pski-guest wrote:
    Read about Yasso carefully.

    Yes, read carefully. From the original source (RW)…

    The article in question

    In the next couple of weeks, I decided to check it out I played around with lots of mathematical equations and talked to about 100 runners of widely differing abilities (from a 2:09 marathoner to several well over 4 hours), and darn if the Yasso 800s didn’t hold up all the way down the line.

    I don’t believe this. From my observations, they do not hold up even in the majority of cases.

    Want to run a 3:30 marathon? Then train to run a bunch of 800s in 3:30 each. Between the 800s, jog for the same number of minutes it took you to run your repeats.

    Sorry, not buying it.

    The rest of the time, just do your normal marathon training, paying special attention to weekend long runs. Give yourself plenty of easy runs and maybe a day or two off during the week.

    But don’t skip the Yasso 800s. This is the workout that’s going to get you to the finish on time.

    Ahh, no.

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.