No Longer 105 marathons in 2008

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    • #10779
      runnerinwilmnc
      Participant

      Perhaps I should apologize GTF. When I was speaking about affability, maybe I had in mind more of a person who does not use insults and who tries not to make people feel bad about actions considered immoral or stupid. When I came here for advice with my problems, maybe I had done so hoping that someone, after so much failure with clergy and professionals, would be out there, possibly able to help. But please, let's not talk about that. Thank you. Maybe when I did seek out help online, it wasn't like I was calling people hurtful names, and maybe that's the kind of affability I had in mind. I do think some people who self-loathe can have SOME affable or gracious behavior. Some of them might do good deeds for others who are suffering. Are they constantly showing affability? Maybe not. But maybe neither are some people who claim to be happy and having lots of self-esteem but are rude in speech. I'm not saying you're rude or anyone else here though. I don't necessarily feel like debating this though. I've spoken about avoiding insults elsewhere and if anyone here feels that it's ok then…

      And I'm not saying that an insult was definitely given. Words can have more than one meaning and what can be an insult to one might not be to others.

      Finally, do you think I did something wrong or immoral by pouring out some information about my problems here? Truly, actually, immoral?

      I might not say that some of the posts here are bitter and angry, but I would prefer to not call Mr. Macon an “old coot”. This can be taken as an insult, as can “old-fart” and “old-fogey”. Wanting to avoid these names might make me seem like I'm a “nicey-nicey,” but it's been said that affability does no harm.

      This is an interesting comment coming from one who apparently feels that dumping huge personal problems onto a bunch of strangers on a forum on a running site is perfectly acceptable.  Especially a message that could imply a desire to harm oneself.  Perhaps affability and self-loathing really can coexist, stranger things have happened.

      Anyway, I think both stories like these as well as stories of runners running fast times can have a place. People can be inspired and/or motivated by seeing people do “big” things, but maybe more when they see people doing “big” things they can see themselves doing. Consider Jaouad Gharib. “'My love for the sport was triggered one day in January 1992 as I watched the live retransmission of the Marrakech Marathon. It was wonderful and I asked myself why I also could not run like these people and one day win this Marathon which is renowned internationally? This was the starting point of my life as an athlete'.” ( https://www.worldathletics.org/news ) But I can wonder, would he have been moved in the same way if he was 52 instead of in his early 20s? Maybe a lot of people in their 50s would still be moved to start running by reading about or seeing runners running 2:30 marathons or better, but maybe a few would think something like, “Well, there's no way I could do that” and never begin running. But maybe some would of these who wouldn't run, would run if they saw everyday people running marathons, even if the people they saw ran very slowly compared to elites.

      Anyway, maybe in the news world reporters will give stories about unusual things, and maybe this was one of them.

      Because 105 marathons in a calendar year is so much more realistic to an inactive person than a 2:30 or any other given time in the marathon?  I still have not been shown conclusively to any degree that marathons and the people who already have an abiding interest in them are in and of themselves any part of the answer to an inactive and fat nation.  Running a marathon (or even just walking one) represents an extreme expenditure of effort.  Again, in the long-term (i.e. what really makes a difference) people are more likely to integrate and adapt to a routine of a much lesser and ongoing expenditure of effort, such as walking to get groceries or to get to the library or to visit friends.  Throwing the notion of an everyman finishing a marathon (let alone 105 in a year) in front of inactive people and expecting there would be much inspiration and motivation among them to aspire to the marathon would be like putting the notion of some everyman summiting Everest (or even just Mt. Rainier) and expect to get much reaction in terms of people ready to become mountaineers as a result.  It is far more likely to engender apathy and resignation than anything else.  Yes, of course there are plenty of inactive people who get on the TiT program to try to jump-start themselves into a fitness routine (I have yet to see the retention numbers once the first marathon is finished, however) and yes that number is of course better than zero and yet even all of them are such a small proportion that there is little basis for claiming it to be an effective answer.  The people in the article linked above who are directly introducing kids to running are having an exponentially greater impact.  There is of course room for both, there is just no comparing the two in terms of effectiveness.

    • #26873
      GTF
      Participant

      Perhaps I should apologize GTF. When I was speaking about affability, maybe I had in mind more of a person who does not use insults and who tries not to make people feel bad about actions considered immoral or stupid.

      If you mean your apology sincerely then of course I accept.  You did call me out, do you consider that affable?  Did you ever consider that I intended zero malice with “old coot,” that I was simply poking a little fun? 

      When I came here for advice with my problems, maybe I had done so hoping that someone, after so much failure with clergy and professionals, would be out there, possibly able to help. But please, let's not talk about that. Thank you. Maybe when I did seek out help online, it wasn't like I was calling people hurtful names, and maybe that's the kind of affability I had in mind.

      You are missing context here and taking this much too seriously.  It is much more likely that you dumping your problems onto these forums has made people feel needlessly uncomfortable than Macon would ever feel slighted by some flip comment that he will likely never see.  Macon seems like the type who would take it as intended, though, and laugh it off. 

      I do think some people who self-loathe can have SOME affable or gracious behavior. Some of them might do good deeds for others who are suffering. Are they constantly showing affability? Maybe not. But maybe neither are some people who claim to be happy and having lots of self-esteem but are rude in speech. I'm not saying you're rude or anyone else here though. I don't necessarily feel like debating this though. I've spoken about avoiding insults elsewhere and if anyone here feels that it's ok then…

      Well, I happen to not consider spilling personal problems out on a forum that does not have that focus at all to be exemplary of “gracious behavior.”  You chose to call out something I stated here and when you feel comfortable enough to do that you better be prepared to be called out as well.  To be honest, I have let you slide on some things I consider to be highly questionable – mostly out of empathy – and merely moved posts and threads away from the most inappropriate areas — in fact, this thread is going to get split and moved now that you have moved it completely away from the original subject.  Anyway, I figured that Ryan would do the dirty work if he had a problem with it.  Though you would have had no way of knowing it, I went easy on you because I could tell you were in a bad place. 

      And I'm not saying that an insult was definitely given. Words can have more than one meaning and what can be an insult to one might not be to others.

      Finally, do you think I did something wrong or immoral by pouring out some information about my problems here? Truly, actually, immoral?

      I do not have a big problem with it, I just consider it poor form.  Think about it this way, what if someone you really did not know well at all came up to you on the street or in school and just started talking about a big load of personal problems that made them feel “despondent?”  Would that not make you feel uncomfortable?  Personally, I do not consider it cool and would question why that person chose to come to me instead of going to someone with an interest and proficiency in such things — I might even laugh the person off as being a nut or a crank.  Even if it would not make you uncomfortable, it could easily make many other people uncomfortable.  Uncomfortable enough that they could want to avoid a running forum.  I mean this with all sincerity and positive intent, you might get better response to your personal problems if you post them to a chatline or forum or listserv dedicated to mental and emotional well-being and save the running stuff to share with us.

    • #26874
      runnerinwilmnc
      Participant

      Maybe I'll just say a little. If I pointed out about a name (“old-coot”), I know that could make someone uncomfortable, and maybe then I would prefer to do it in the most gentle and kind way possible. Is it ok if I leave this discussion with this? In a sincere way, could I humbly ask to leave this discussion and maybe let you have the final word? Thanks.

      Perhaps I should apologize GTF. When I was speaking about affability, maybe I had in mind more of a person who does not use insults and who tries not to make people feel bad about actions considered immoral or stupid.

      If you mean your apology sincerely then of course I accept.  You did call me out, do you consider that affable?  Did you ever consider that I intended zero malice with “old coot,” that I was simply poking a little fun? 

      When I came here for advice with my problems, maybe I had done so hoping that someone, after so much failure with clergy and professionals, would be out there, possibly able to help. But please, let's not talk about that. Thank you. Maybe when I did seek out help online, it wasn't like I was calling people hurtful names, and maybe that's the kind of affability I had in mind.

      You are missing context here and taking this much too seriously.  It is much more likely that you dumping your problems onto these forums has made people feel needlessly uncomfortable than Macon would ever feel slighted by some flip comment that he will likely never see.  Macon seems like the type who would take it as intended, though, and laugh it off. 

      I do think some people who self-loathe can have SOME affable or gracious behavior. Some of them might do good deeds for others who are suffering. Are they constantly showing affability? Maybe not. But maybe neither are some people who claim to be happy and having lots of self-esteem but are rude in speech. I'm not saying you're rude or anyone else here though. I don't necessarily feel like debating this though. I've spoken about avoiding insults elsewhere and if anyone here feels that it's ok then…

      Well, I happen to not consider spilling personal problems out on a forum that does not have that focus at all to be exemplary of “gracious behavior.”  You chose to call out something I stated here and when you feel comfortable enough to do that you better be prepared to be called out as well.  To be honest, I have let you slide on some things I consider to be highly questionable – mostly out of empathy – and merely moved posts and threads away from the most inappropriate areas — in fact, this thread is going to get split and moved now that you have moved it completely away from the original subject.  Anyway, I figured that Ryan would do the dirty work if he had a problem with it.  Though you would have had no way of knowing it, I went easy on you because I could tell you were in a bad place. 

      And I'm not saying that an insult was definitely given. Words can have more than one meaning and what can be an insult to one might not be to others.

      Finally, do you think I did something wrong or immoral by pouring out some information about my problems here? Truly, actually, immoral?

      I do not have a big problem with it, I just consider it poor form.  Think about it this way, what if someone you really did not know well at all came up to you on the street or in school and just started talking about a big load of personal problems that made them feel “despondent?”  Would that not make you feel uncomfortable?  Personally, I would question why that person chose to come to me instead of going to someone with an interest and proficiency in such things — I might even laugh the person off as being a nut or a crank.  Even if it would not make you uncomfortable, it could easily make many other people uncomfortable.  Uncomfortable enough that they could want to avoid a running forum.  I mean this with all sincerity and positive intent, you might get better response to your personal problems if you post them to a chatline or forum or listserv dedicated to mental and emotional well-being and save the running stuff to share with us.

    • #26875
      GTF
      Participant

      Hey, I fully encourage you (or anyone else) to involve yourself in any discussion as little or as much as you please.  Unless one is being excessively inflammatory and disruptive then let it fly.  If I really had a problem with it then I would have deleted your messages and encouraged you to explore discussion of a personal nature off the board, though the latter might not be a bad idea to keep in mind for future reference.  I do not want you to walk away feeling unwanted or that your contribution to the board is worthless.  If you are just done with the topic, that is also fine. 

      The point I was getting at is that just because you are uncomfortable using terms like old coot and assume malice in it does not mean that the same does or should hold true for me.  Just like me not being comfortable with expressing personal difficulties here that have basically nothing to do with running does not mean that you feel the same.  Different strokes for different folks.  If I really had a problem with your previous posts then I would have commented directly on them at that time, at least via personal message.  I can certainly allow it – and I have allowed it – but perhaps just keep it in mind to employ a bit better filter and consider what the thought has to do with the thread/forum and where it might best fit.  However, if you want to pick a bone with someone publicly then do not be surprised if someone decides to do the same with you.  Golden rule type stuff.  If you feel brave enough to call out a comment then you better also feel brave enough to allow others to call out your comments.  It might be a good idea to not be so grave and assume the worst if that intent has not been made incredibly clear.  Those who know me well know that I am quick to laugh, especially at myself.  This all (running, posting on this site, whatever) is stuff we do for fun, for the hell of it, I typically have a grin on my face as I post.  I have already noted that I see the world a little differently than a lot of people do.  I certainly respect others as having that same right. 

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