June 3, 2004 at 12:57 pm #1566
The gang is off to the races, slower than they probably anticipated. Week one of the 18 is off to a good start.
Walz is in about 2:52-2:54 shape already. We did an 8 aerobic with 10 strides together on Monday and he’s a good 10 yards ahead of me in 20 seconds.
Kirschbaum and Kuchar both registered around 1:30 halfs coming into training. Kooch will have to abandon the Heartrate for 17 1/2 more weeks. Kirschbaum will have to abandon the race circuit, but I have an inkling everyone is on board here. Early reports on all fronts are the workouts and paces I set for them are reportedly no problem at this time. for those interested I will post little updates, unless told this is all useless, then I’ll stop.
Right now Kooch and Kirschbaum have their aerobic rruns and long run paces capped at about 8:15 and 8:00 minutes respectively. Walz is capped at 7:35’s right now. The first LT run comes up in a week and a half and will be the first slight barometer of where the progress is going.
FWIW they are all on the Pfitz 70 mpw or less. I am tackling the 24 week up to 70mpw for NYC. Week two, I have myself at 8:00 min miles for the gen aerobic runs. The wear of the Ice Age is finally begining to fade. Myself, Kirschbaum and Kooch will all gun for sub 2:50 in the fall, Walz may have a shot at sub 2:40, we’ll see how the horse holds out.
To ED if your still here. Just a word of caution. If you work a different workout into the Pfitz program, it’s no longer his program, but your own. PSKI
June 3, 2004 at 1:05 pm #14904
Shoot, time is getting short and I still feel like I haven’t established an adequate base. I may have to start cranking things up before my base is fully where I would like it to be. Maybe I’ll have to talk with Double and get on one of his barn burner plans with the limited time I’m going to be working with.
Where is Walz planning on running? If he’s in sub-2:40 shape and looking at a marathon that I would consider running, maybe it would be good for us to hook up in the early going. I was hoping for low 2:30s this fall but time is getting short and, without a miracle, I’ll have to concede that last year cost me more than I initially hoped and back off of that goal a bit.
June 3, 2004 at 1:07 pm #14905
Ryan, he’s planning on Lakefront
June 3, 2004 at 2:35 pm #14906
I like the updates, it gives me a basis to where i need to be in the fall when i start up my plan (adjusted to my goals of course).
So i say keep em coming, if other people think they are becoming clutter
than if you could include me on any type of Team Pski email list it would be much appreciated.
That being said I think the updates will be helpful to quite a few of us for edcucation and inspirational reasons.
Personally 90% of my time spend on these boards is spent seeking out training plans, philosophies, successes, failures and the like, not discussions about gu’s, shoes, politics, what shirt to wear in my race, or whether it is ok to run a marathon 12 hours after just completing my first marathon.
June 3, 2004 at 3:26 pm #14907
Well said finnegan. Keep ’em coming ‘ski.
June 3, 2004 at 3:27 pm #14908
ZekeMemberAnonymous wrote:Well said finnegan. Keep ’em coming ‘ski.
That was me, Zeke.
June 3, 2004 at 3:51 pm #14909
Pski, I think it could be an interesting case study to follow these guys through and see how they respond to the training and what the results are. I’m with finnegan, I won’t directly control what shows up on these forums but I am definitely more interested in discussions related to training and racing for optimal performance than I am in gu, mp3 players, etc. I do see some shoe discussions as valuable but I don’t care what my shoes look like as long as they do the job and I’m not paying too much for them. Anyway, I think following them and maybe discussing the observations could be interesting.
If I’m not in shape to break 2:30, which it looks like I will not be this fall, I’m planning on running Lakefront also. Sounds like Walz and I could be set up pretty well for working together, at least through the first half.
June 3, 2004 at 4:15 pm #14910
is there a rule against HR monitors?
any other rules of note, like how much beer can i drink in training, or do i schedule a weekend bender in vegas as a “cutback week”. or do i need to, gulp, scrap any weekend benders for 18 weeks?? 😯
what info will you post, or have time to post. or what info are you reviewing with your stable, i would assume key workouts, not recovery stuff. or in short, what feedback are you requiring from your boys?
this could be our own little reality series without the tv, commercial interuption and mind boggling profits.
do you use Jack Daniels for vdot/pace determination or do you have your own formula?
I haven’t read the Pfitz book so these may be stupid questions (kinda like back in school)
June 3, 2004 at 6:37 pm #14911finnegan wrote:any other rules of note, like how much beer can i drink in training, or do i schedule a weekend bender in vegas as a “cutback week”. or do i need to, gulp, scrap any weekend benders for 18 weeks?? 😯
You’re asking pski if beer is allowed? Some insider information: I witnessed him feeding Double glasses of Guiness on a Thursday night before a Saturday morning 50 miler. If there is any kind of beer quota, I would expect a minimum.finnegan wrote:this could be our own little reality series without the tv, commercial interuption and mind boggling profits.
Can I hope for some moderate profits? 😉
June 3, 2004 at 7:40 pm #14912
I kinda figgered as much, Wisconsin has never struck me as a teetotalers’ paradise.
I spent two weeks on business in Appleton and Green Bay a ways back.
It was the middle of December and well below zero plus wind chill (at least that is what it seemed) and the bars were packed every night.
I’ve never experienced cold like that.
You guys may appreciate this, my mom brought my wife some pictures of me as a youngin and there is one of me running a 5k or some kinda race when I’m 10 or 11. I’m wearing a Miller High Life T-shirt.
It’s still my favorite beer. We refer to it as “South Houston Guinness”
I wore a Schlitz t-shirt in my January Marathon.
June 4, 2004 at 12:56 pm #14913
Ryan, It will be interesting to see how this all goes. Jamie Walz would be great for you to hook up with. I will try to get together with him for a long run tomorrow morning, probably down the drumlin or out toward West High School, I could call you this evening. We have 15 o the schedule. He’s not afraid to run slower, but will pick it up the second half while I remain in my own reality.
Finnegan, Heart rate monitors are not forbidden, but not to be taken seriously either. Kooch called me saying he’s training in no man’s land. I’m say no sh*t, training for a sub 2:50 is for most no man’s land. We are going for time and time only. Either that heart is going to adapt or die. Everyone here has shown ability that tells me it WILL adapt. But it will adapt to the PUSH of this training. I reminded Kooch after his HR tests where he learned he’s trained too fast in the past, that with this trainig he’ll stilll be way below paces he previously tried to train at.
BEER/ Diet. It’s individual. I’ll have my beers as Ryan has attested too. I’ll try to cut out the junk, but I let the diet issues up to the runners. When they see what’s coming schedule wise, I think they will adapt to that too. I won’t be at the bar the night before a long run or tempo run for instance, but can always stumble through a recovery run. Hell, a few beers may keep that pace down too!
These first couple weeks are boring endurance runs. First tempo a week from Monday. Paces are tied to Daniels charts, begining from where we are and will be squeezed to where we want to be with about 10 weeks to race. That gives everyone a 7 week training period to adapt and gettting comfortable to training like the time they want. Keeping those paces through the taper and the body is ready to rock race day. So for principal sake here. We begin training like 3:00 to 3:14 marathoners and in 8 weeks have all those training paces ratched in place for our goal race. That seem to give a great period for becoming the racer we want if that makes sense.
June 4, 2004 at 1:21 pm #14914
Pski, I’m up for a long run tomorrow morning. Was thinking more in the 20 mile range but I can always tack some on at the end or, if the pace gets hot, I just take it as a longer up tempo run. If you don’t have my cell number, PM or e-mail me and I can give it to you or call you. I’m not afraid to run slower, either. In fact, I have been running slower quite frequently lately. Gotta build that base before you worry about pace.
June 4, 2004 at 3:34 pm #14915
that makes sense and awnsers alot of questions.
looking forward to seeing the progression.
I’ll keep doing my thing this summer and then come september hopefully jump into it with a realistic but slightly agressive goal for January based on some shorter races in the next few months. I will definitely seek input as to what is realistic or not.
June 4, 2004 at 9:59 pm #14916
For those of you in the know, I will be staying in Wisconsin. Based on this, I will run a marathon or two this summer/fall. I will be on a lower mileage plan, but will run an awful lot of miles around race pace.
I to am anxious to see how this all plays out, since I have ran with all these people numerous times. More than likely, I will jump into some of the training runs.
I will not be following any set plan. I will allow myself to freewill and race myself into shape. I’ll go after a sub 2:40 on nothing more than I believe it is possible.
I’m thinking of a Paavo excursion for the fun of it and then Quad Cities or Lakefront, or both.
Marathoning is more closely related to the 10k than any of the 17 ultras I’ve done. I don’t particularly like the distance, but it is an honest measure of how willing you are to stare into the eyes of the beast. I haven’t laid the plan out or anything, but I am considering trying to get in about 20 miles a week around 6:00 pace for grins. Everyone has a theory or idea on how to train, I just like experimenting as I go on.
Remember, the first one up is the best one dressed.
June 4, 2004 at 10:57 pm #14917
Double, I’m glad to hear you’re hanging around. Things wouldn’t be the same in the local running scene without you here.
Hey, why not throw your hat in for Lakefront? We could have a nice little pack of guys shooting for the high 2:30s forming.
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