Question on order of periodization

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This topic contains 13 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  ed 9 years ago.

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  • #11973

    ed
    Participant

    A goal race for me is 16 weeks away (8k) – for a meriad of reasons (some poor some valid) my base has been very comprimised.  I planed on 8-9 weeks of nothing but daily running to re-establish my base.  My question at that point is should I follow that with speed work and then hill work or hill then speed?  The route of the race has one serious hill in it in the begining of the race.

    I am feeling in my gut that I should concentrate on base for more like 10 weeks slowly increasing the base speed to 8 mpm and then do hill work for 4 weeks with a gentle two weeks prior to the race.  I think given that my base has taken such a hit I might just not think about a PR during training and let the chips fall where they may on race day.

  • #29637

    Andrew A.
    Member

    I recommend a different tack: build up base consistently for four weeks, then build-in everything else (speed, hills) while continuing to expand volume gradually, with a recovery week every 2-3 weeks.  Hills could just be in the form of running a hilly course and pushing up and over the top of hills.  Speed could start out as tempo or progression runs of increasing length, plus strides, and progress into long (2K-3K) repeats, plus strides.  Also, no “gentle two weeks” — tapering for one week should be adequate. 

  • #29638

    ed
    Participant

    I like your idea Andrew –

    I'll be carefull about expanding the volume when I first start adding the hills and speed work.  I think I'll find a really hilly route to make my base runs (just ease the speed back until I acclimate) and then begin to work in a mix of Tempos, fartleks and intervals.  I'll remember the recovery week as I'll need two of them in this short time frame in order to maximize my gains.

    You are right I should only have a single taper week – especially for an 8K. ::)

    I am thinking that this goal race has become a semi-goal race and now I have to shoot for Gold at Brigg's and Al's in early Oct.  If ever there was an opportuinity for you to return to this area Andrew – Brigg's and Al's would be a great time (hint . . hint). 😉

  • #29639

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    I was going to suggest something similar to Andrew on all accounts. Don't worry about no fast running in base building. I think injecting some speed carefully can be beneficial. You'll have an initial time of just adapting to running daily again. Once you've adapted to that, throw in an occasional tempo or progression run and some occasional strides. In the final month or so, you can throw in some intervals. As for hills, you live in a place where it shouldn't be too hard to introduce hills into your run once or twice a week. This should be sufficient.

  • #29640

    ed
    Participant

    If I do any type of speed work during the rebuilding of my base it will be a hadfull of Strides. Otherwise slow and easy for a couple of months – I do NOT need another injury.  That could start the crappy cycle all over again for me (until I learn how to break that cycle).

  • #29641

    Andrew A.
    Member

    I will take it under advisement. 🙂
    A hard finish to a run ('run to the barn') once or twice a week on days when you are feeling especially energetic would be fine, even in base-building.  So long as you know that for the day or two following a hard run that the runs should be kept easy, even if you are not feeling especially sore or tired.  Perhaps make a practice of alternating runs on hilly routes with runs on mostly flat routes, as well.

  • #29642

    ed
    Participant

    I think that the hard finish to a run would be a great workout – sort of helping establish negative splits.

    Great idea -I will use that but of course with caution. 

  • #29643

    Double
    Member

    Screw caution.

    If you ain't blastin', you ain't lastin'.

    Like Kemibe said, “It's hard to burn out if you never caught fire.”

  • #29644

    ed
    Participant

    Hey Double –

    I am going with caution for 2-3 months because my base has been terribly erroded.  After Fish Day I will build it up to catching fire for Al's.  BTW will you be at Al's this year?

  • #29645

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Those “run to the barn” runs are great workouts. I've found that they don't take much out of me but they are great for stretching out the legs.

    Ed, given what I recall of your history, some level of caution seems like a good idea. However, I agree with what I'm guessing Double is getting at here. Sometimes, you have to just let it fly. There is such a thing as being too cautious. Taking calculated risks is part of the game.

  • #29646

    Double
    Member

    Ed,

    I'm not sure what your were doing when I saw you run that great South Shore, but peak back at the training log and repeat that.

    My straight up take on you Ed is you just have to run.  No plans, no schedules, no periodization schedules.  Run what the day gives you.  If you have a good hour, go run it.  If you have 40 minutes, do some hills, fartlek, 15 minutes harder.  If you can squeeze an 1.5 hour long run on the weekend do it.  It will all gel together AND you will learn so much about what you like, what works, AND it is also very freeing. 

    I say that because this is what I have come to over the years.  Once in a while I get motivated and I ramp up for 3-5 weeks.  That's good, not bad.  If I decide I don't want to run much for a week because of whatever, I cut back.  Keep it fresh.  One doesn't have to have the mentality that they have to be at a certain place or on pace with something.  This has worked extremely well for me.  When the motivating times come I blast it.  When it is time to relax or repair I enjoy the lesser training…BUT I am always training.  For me it might be 5-8 runs a week at my leisure.  The simple act of enjoying what you are doing (even those times you don't really want to get out, but do) makes me a runner.  I've said this a dozen times on here.  It only really matters to me.  Despite how I do, Woody still loves me (talked to him 50 minutes the other day).  The biggest improvements in running come with the consistent mind set that you are a runner.  Even a half hour a day allows one to ramp up to close to an hour a day when the fire comes. 

    I could go on and on, but learn to enjoy the simple act of running.  Some of us have been required to (maybe a bad analogy), stick to or follow a regiment and it is taxing.  When one works, has family, etc., there isn't always a need to be in boot camp mentality.  Sure, when one has clarity and purpose you do it, but when it becomes a job I always go back to free wheeling mode.  For instance, I drove by this big grass hill yesterday and said, “I'm going out there and run up that bad boy 4-5 times”…and I did 5 repeats.  Nothing all out, but a good solid run.  It fit into what I wanted to do, not something I planned.  That's what makes it fun.

    Just get up tomorrow and decide want Ed wants to do.

    Not sure about Al's.  The October placement this year is right in the middle of 2-3 other things I want to do.

    If I can help, let me know.

    Double

  • #29647

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Another great post by Double and it makes a lot of sense for where you are at, Ed. Don't over think things, you'll accomplish a lot just by getting out as many days as reasonable to run.

    Always leave it to Double to remind us of when we're over thinking things.

  • #29648

    Andrew A.
    Member

    Right, avoid making it a chore or rigid at all.  The more it conforms to how one feels, the more it will seem like a treat, something fun that one gets to do rather than something one has to do.

  • #29649

    ed
    Participant

    Thanks Double –

    Great stuff as always – your right, that race of the south shore half marathon was super and it was fun and most of my running up until about three months before that was just getting out there and doing what felt good.  Those last three months I was coached by Zeke and he did a great job.  Mostly keeping me in check and getting me to do intervals and repeats.

    I am going to have myself some fun -especially when it warms up a bit more and shorts are easier to wear>

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