race report – please help

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This topic contains 34 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  PeppoMiles 13 years, 12 months ago.

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  • #2032

    PeppoMiles
    Member

    This is the report I wrote to my running club on my last marathon (number 4), last Tuesday. I’d very much appreciate if some of you were patient enough to read it and let me know your useful opinion on it.

    I’m very disappointed by the performance (though overall I’m satisfied because I love running too much to be upset by a slow race…)

    Additional info : I started running in 92 at the age of 18 (now I’m 31).

    I’m 177cm and 64kg (my weights never changes). Before this, my marathons were in fall 01 and 02 with 2:49 and 2:43 (both with less training than now). Half and 10km PBs are 33:05 (last year during marathon training, marathon missed because of accident) and 1:15:29 (this year during marathon training), both without taper.

    The course was good and the weather great.

    My last long run before the race was 16 days before (37km, like usual, in 01 and 02 it was 5 and 10 days before the race), in the next 16 days I ran about half what I would have done without taper.

    Paces and distances in km

    Here the report….

    My previous marathon before Ohtawara this year was Ohtawara 02, where I set a 2:43:38 PB on my 2nd road marathon, with almost 4min negative split. I knew this year I was in better shape, at least because of

    1) higher mileage, including 8+ months averaging 131+ km per week (about 20km per week more than in 02)

    2) a weekly long run of 37+ km

    3) fast intervals at 3:20-3:30 pace (about 10sec faster than in 02, a typical sessions are 10 x 1km or 12 x 1200m with 1min jog in between)

    4) confidence gained via good races at shorter distances, including Obuse

    and a surprise half marathon PB by 35 sec to 1:15:29 (with the last 5km in

    sub-17, my 5km PB is 16:28) without specific training nor taper

    5) thousands of kms of very hilly cycling

    6) better taper

    From the point of view of the performance the race was a disastrous. After

    virtually no stretching and a too short 4-min warm up the race started at

    sub-4 pace. I wanted to run my own race following the feeling rather than

    numbers, but I didn’t. I noticed from the start, but especially between 5

    and 15km that my legs were not ready for that pace for that distance. I am still convinced it’s kind of impossible the training I followed did not

    prepared them for that pace for that distance, but this matters less, what

    matters most is that I should have react according to that feeling and I

    didn’t, just to pay it later. Splits were nearly uniform until the 35km

    mark, but this does not mean much, had I been honest with myself from the very beginning I knew what was going to happen.

    At the 35km mark my legs started to cramp, especially in uphill or downhill

    sections. I slightly changed the mechanincs of running and gained minimal

    improvement. But soon later it no longer helped. I had to walk several

    times, it was beyond my choice. My choices were things like to get up at 4am in the summer for 37+ km LSD, or cycling 70km before work at 9am, followed by 15km easy run after work, or weeks with 12 runs and 175+ km. But walking soon after the 35km mark was not a choice. Things changed a little when the Namban group cheered me up at the 41km, where I managed to jog some hundreds of meters more, but it was a mixture of fun and despair to stop for 30sec some 50 meters BEFORE the finish line and not even been able to walk to it.

    I finished in 2:52:32 with almost 12 min positive splits, my last 2km were

    covered in about 13min, compared to the just over 7min of 02.

    I did not “hit the wall”, or run out of energy. I did not suffer thirst.

    Even at the end, I felt still plenty of glycogen, it was just my muscles

    were painful. I virtually had no blisters.

    Since the disastrous end I have been thinking why I could not managed to run a better race, and came out with one possile explanation.

    My speedwork was at race pace of between 10km and half marathon. No surprise I ran very good half marathons and 10km races ! In months I virtually never run at marathon race pace. High mileage, LSD, and fast speedwork are good components of marathon training, but marathon race pace turned out to be more important than I thought. I thought of running the marathon at 3:40-3:50 pace, but my training was either at 3:20-3:30 pace or at 4:20-4:30 pace. No wonder I was capable to run at 3:20-3:30 or at 4:20-4:30 pace but not at 3:40-3:50. This is the very only one thing I can think of, and soon after recovering my training will change accordingly with regular sessions of between 20 and 30km at marathon race pace.

    Here my disastrous splits :

    distance total 5-km split thoughts

    5 19:23 I’m happy I started slow

    10 38:18 18:53 Am I feeling good ?

    15 57:17 19:00 This should feel easier…

    20 1:16:40 19:23 See what’s next…

    half 1:20:43 All ok….?

    25 1:35:50 19:10 Sure did I start easy ?

    30 1:55:01 19:11 Perhaps I didn’t …

    35 2:14:20 19:19 Crashing, but still fun…

    37.195 2:23:52 …fun and pain.

    40 2:37:20 23:00 More pain

    40.195 2:38:19 (3km in 14:27) I’m dying

    41.195 2:45:43 (4km in 21:49) Lesson learned.

    42.195 2:52:32 (1, 2, and 5km in 6:49, 14:13, and 31:40) What

    went wrong ?


    In retrospect, the whole event was good. I knew it before and I am more

    convinced of it now that running is not only about performance, whether you measure it in time or position or anything else. I’m still happy with the

    training I did, at least because I enjoyed doing it, it just turned out to

    be not appropriate. People like Radcliffe and Gebre say performance is very important, but training and races are more about the joy of running than to get a good result. I am in good company.

    Run well,

    Alberto

  • #16908

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Well, I’m not sure if I can offer the answer or anyone else can. What I can say is I know guys like Beck, who at least a few people here credit with some of their best performances, think marathon pace is very important. Other very credible people say marathon pace runs are important but overdone by many people. I just know I wouldn’t go into a marathon without at least a few MP runs of roughly 15-25k.

    Also, while it sounds like you got in very good training and your race results in other races reflected that, is it possible that you overstepped a bit on your training? Maybe you hit your peak before the marathon came around. I believe the better training you get in, the more careful you have to be that you don’t peak early.

    Just acouple of thoughts. I have no idea if there might be a solution somewhere in these thoughts.

  • #16808

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Well, I’m not sure if I can offer the answer or anyone else can. What I can say is I know guys like Beck, who at least a few people here credit with some of their best performances, think marathon pace is very important. Other very credible people say marathon pace runs are important but overdone by many people. I just know I wouldn’t go into a marathon without at least a few MP runs of roughly 15-25k.

    Also, while it sounds like you got in very good training and your race results in other races reflected that, is it possible that you overstepped a bit on your training? Maybe you hit your peak before the marathon came around. I believe the better training you get in, the more careful you have to be that you don’t peak early.

    Just acouple of thoughts. I have no idea if there might be a solution somewhere in these thoughts.

  • #16909

    PeppoMiles
    Member
    Ryan wrote:
    while it sounds like you got in very good training and your race results in other races reflected that, is it possible that you overstepped a bit on your training? Maybe you hit your peak before the marathon came around. I believe the better training you get in, the more careful you have to be that you don’t peak early.

    Yes, this is certainly a possibility. Ill try to be more careful from now on.

    Thanks a lot.

    Peppo

  • #16809

    PeppoMiles
    Member
    Ryan wrote:
    while it sounds like you got in very good training and your race results in other races reflected that, is it possible that you overstepped a bit on your training? Maybe you hit your peak before the marathon came around. I believe the better training you get in, the more careful you have to be that you don’t peak early.

    Yes, this is certainly a possibility. Ill try to be more careful from now on.

    Thanks a lot.

    Peppo

  • #16910

    ferris
    Member

    All I can say is that it seems that you weren’t prepared for the marathon distance. I have been there, also. I ran a 1:12 half 2 months prior and still crashed at the Mary. Next time, do more Mary pace runs and try to fpocus on the marathin distance. Many times, myself included, we try to predict our Mary times with shorter races, but we forget that the Mary is an ornary old hag who will eat you up at the first sign of weakness.

  • #16810

    ferris
    Member

    All I can say is that it seems that you weren’t prepared for the marathon distance. I have been there, also. I ran a 1:12 half 2 months prior and still crashed at the Mary. Next time, do more Mary pace runs and try to fpocus on the marathin distance. Many times, myself included, we try to predict our Mary times with shorter races, but we forget that the Mary is an ornary old hag who will eat you up at the first sign of weakness.

  • #16911

    Mark5000
    Member

    Now that a couple experienced marathoners have spoken up, I’ll go ahead and chime in. From your report, it sounds like you just weren’t fit enough to complete the race at your pre-planned pace. You say you felt like you weren’t going to be able to hold 2:40 pace almost from the start, and it sounds like you felt the crash coming well before it actually happened.

    So here’s what I’m thinking. Compare your 10K, half marathon, and marathon PRs and a pattern emerges. For convenience, I’ll use Jack Daniels’ VDOT table to make my point, though the race conversion calculator on this site also works. Your 10K PR suggests about a 1:13 half marathon and a 2:33 marathon (VDOT about 65). Your half marathon PR suggests a 2:37:22 marathon (VDOT 62.5 or so). Yet your PR is 2:43 (VDOT 60). You tend to run significantly slower than predicted as the distance gets longer. So there’s a couple possibilities: 1) You’re not properly trained for the longer distances. 2) You’re built to race best in the 5K-10K range (or possibly even shorter), and that’s just the way it is. Let’s take a closer look at your training…

    You seem to have plenty of background, run adequate volume, and run plenty (ALOT!) of long runs… all positives. But what really jumps out at me is that you seem to train at only 2 speeds… easy pace and your 3:20-3:30/km intervals. You seem to completely neglect tempo runs and marathon pace runs, which are generally considered crucial for success in the marathon. So as you suggest, the problem may be that you didn’t train specifically enough for the distance. I’m willing to bet you would improve in the future if you put more emphasis on tempo runs, regardless of the distance you’re training for, and maybe a little less emphasis on the intervals if training for a marathon. I’d be shocked if this didn’t make a significant difference, though again, there’s always the possibility that you’re more of a 5-10K specialist. Only time will tell.

    While you had a disappointing race, it doesn’t sound like such a disaster to me. You found the strength to finish when you had nothing left in the tank, still managed to have a good time, and you’re striving to learn from the experience. It may turn out to be a great race after all.

  • #16811

    Mark5000
    Member

    Now that a couple experienced marathoners have spoken up, I’ll go ahead and chime in. From your report, it sounds like you just weren’t fit enough to complete the race at your pre-planned pace. You say you felt like you weren’t going to be able to hold 2:40 pace almost from the start, and it sounds like you felt the crash coming well before it actually happened.

    So here’s what I’m thinking. Compare your 10K, half marathon, and marathon PRs and a pattern emerges. For convenience, I’ll use Jack Daniels’ VDOT table to make my point, though the race conversion calculator on this site also works. Your 10K PR suggests about a 1:13 half marathon and a 2:33 marathon (VDOT about 65). Your half marathon PR suggests a 2:37:22 marathon (VDOT 62.5 or so). Yet your PR is 2:43 (VDOT 60). You tend to run significantly slower than predicted as the distance gets longer. So there’s a couple possibilities: 1) You’re not properly trained for the longer distances. 2) You’re built to race best in the 5K-10K range (or possibly even shorter), and that’s just the way it is. Let’s take a closer look at your training…

    You seem to have plenty of background, run adequate volume, and run plenty (ALOT!) of long runs… all positives. But what really jumps out at me is that you seem to train at only 2 speeds… easy pace and your 3:20-3:30/km intervals. You seem to completely neglect tempo runs and marathon pace runs, which are generally considered crucial for success in the marathon. So as you suggest, the problem may be that you didn’t train specifically enough for the distance. I’m willing to bet you would improve in the future if you put more emphasis on tempo runs, regardless of the distance you’re training for, and maybe a little less emphasis on the intervals if training for a marathon. I’d be shocked if this didn’t make a significant difference, though again, there’s always the possibility that you’re more of a 5-10K specialist. Only time will tell.

    While you had a disappointing race, it doesn’t sound like such a disaster to me. You found the strength to finish when you had nothing left in the tank, still managed to have a good time, and you’re striving to learn from the experience. It may turn out to be a great race after all.

  • #16912

    PeppoMiles
    Member
    ferris wrote:
    All I can say is that it seems that you weren’t prepared for the marathon distance. I have been there, also. I ran a 1:12 half 2 months prior and still crashed at the Mary. Next time, do more Mary pace runs and try to fpocus on the marathin distance. Many times, myself included, we try to predict our Mary times with shorter races, but we forget that the Mary is an ornary old hag who will eat you up at the first sign of weakness.

    Ferris, thanks for the comment.

    I think you are mostly right. I needed more MP runs. But I’m not sure I can agree on “try to focus on the marathon distance”: I run more long runs than before, higher mileage by about 20%, all my PBs were faster and still it was my slowest marathon. I think the main factor was a lack of MP runs.

  • #16812

    PeppoMiles
    Member
    ferris wrote:
    All I can say is that it seems that you weren’t prepared for the marathon distance. I have been there, also. I ran a 1:12 half 2 months prior and still crashed at the Mary. Next time, do more Mary pace runs and try to fpocus on the marathin distance. Many times, myself included, we try to predict our Mary times with shorter races, but we forget that the Mary is an ornary old hag who will eat you up at the first sign of weakness.

    Ferris, thanks for the comment.

    I think you are mostly right. I needed more MP runs. But I’m not sure I can agree on “try to focus on the marathon distance”: I run more long runs than before, higher mileage by about 20%, all my PBs were faster and still it was my slowest marathon. I think the main factor was a lack of MP runs.

  • #16913

    PeppoMiles
    Member
    Mark5000 wrote:
    From your report, it sounds like you just weren’t fit enough to complete the race at your pre-planned pace.

    I hate to say it, but I’m afraid you are right.

    You say you felt like you weren’t going to be able to hold 2:40 pace almost from the start, and it sounds like you felt the crash coming well before it actually happened.

    Exactly. Lesson learned. But it’s rather frustrating that with more fitness and more experience I ran my slowest marathon 😥

    So here’s what I’m thinking. Compare your 10K, half marathon, and marathon PRs and a pattern emerges. For convenience, I’ll use Jack Daniels’ VDOT table to make my point, though the race conversion calculator on this site also works. Your 10K PR suggests about a 1:13 half marathon and a 2:33 marathon (VDOT about 65). Your half marathon PR suggests a 2:37:22 marathon (VDOT 62.5 or so). Yet your PR is 2:43 (VDOT 60). You tend to run significantly slower than predicted as the distance gets longer.

    Sorry but I must give some additional information. Those 33:05 and 1:15:29 PBs were ran during what I consider marathon training. I had not tapered. The HM PB was on a Sunday, the day before I did 4hours of MTB with 1500m elevation gain, the Friday I had a session of 10X1000 with a min off. The thursday I flew 12 hours from Japan to Italy. COnditions were very far from ideal, and the same is true for the 33:05 10km.

    Had I put myself in ideal condition, those 1:15:29 and 33:05 would have been faster.

    The 2:43 PB was ran in ideal condition, but I must admit that the training that brought me there was much more modest than what I did for 33:05 and 1:15:29. I’m not sure they can be compared.

    So there’s a couple possibilities: 1) You’re not properly trained for the longer distances.

    Perhaps this is true, but my main wonder is : why I was in my best marathon fitness and I ran my slowest marathon ? I trained less for 2:43 than I did for 2:52.

    2) You’re built to race best in the 5K-10K range (or possibly even shorter), and that’s just the way it is. Let’s take a closer look at your training…

    You seem to have plenty of background, run adequate volume,

    I think more than adequate, I ran less for 2:43 !

    But what really jumps out at me is that you seem to train at only 2 speeds… easy pace and your 3:20-3:30/km intervals. You seem to completely neglect tempo runs and marathon pace runs

    My intervals are relatively long (total time of hard running is typically 40-50min), with very short recovery (1min). This is much better for LT than it is for VO2max.

    But you are right, the difference between this marathon adn those before is that I almost completely missed MP runs.

    So as you suggest, the problem may be that you didn’t train specifically enough for the distance.

    Again, I’m afraid you are dead right. But again, it’s frustrating : I had much more confident because my mileage was higher and my fast session were faster.

    I’m willing to bet you would improve in the future if you put more emphasis on tempo runs, regardless of the distance you’re training for, and maybe a little less emphasis on the intervals if training for a marathon.

    The race was 8 days ago. I’m jogging very easy right now. Sure I very much look forward to change my training in the direction you say and see how things change.

    I’d be shocked if this didn’t make a significant difference, though again, there’s always the possibility that you’re more of a 5-10K specialist. Only time will tell.

    I believe I’m more built for the mary than for anything else.

    My first road mary was 2:49:30, but at that time my 10km and HM best were 34:49 and 1:17:40. Training and conditions were equally good.

    But you are right, only time will tell. I look forward to more running and to find it out.

    While you had a disappointing race, it doesn’t sound like such a disaster to me. You found the strength to finish when you had nothing left in the tank, still managed to have a good time, and you’re striving to learn from the experience. It may turn out to be a great race after all.

    From the point of view of the performance, comparing what I thought I was in shaper for (by looking at training and mary races for this and for the 2 before), I still consider it a disaster.

    But overall it was good. Running is not (not only) about running fast or slow. It’s also about learning from mistakes. It’s also about enjoying sacrifices as well as pain of training and races.

    Thanks again for patience and good comments.

    I look forward to more running.

  • #16813

    PeppoMiles
    Member
    Mark5000 wrote:
    From your report, it sounds like you just weren’t fit enough to complete the race at your pre-planned pace.

    I hate to say it, but I’m afraid you are right.

    You say you felt like you weren’t going to be able to hold 2:40 pace almost from the start, and it sounds like you felt the crash coming well before it actually happened.

    Exactly. Lesson learned. But it’s rather frustrating that with more fitness and more experience I ran my slowest marathon 😥

    So here’s what I’m thinking. Compare your 10K, half marathon, and marathon PRs and a pattern emerges. For convenience, I’ll use Jack Daniels’ VDOT table to make my point, though the race conversion calculator on this site also works. Your 10K PR suggests about a 1:13 half marathon and a 2:33 marathon (VDOT about 65). Your half marathon PR suggests a 2:37:22 marathon (VDOT 62.5 or so). Yet your PR is 2:43 (VDOT 60). You tend to run significantly slower than predicted as the distance gets longer.

    Sorry but I must give some additional information. Those 33:05 and 1:15:29 PBs were ran during what I consider marathon training. I had not tapered. The HM PB was on a Sunday, the day before I did 4hours of MTB with 1500m elevation gain, the Friday I had a session of 10X1000 with a min off. The thursday I flew 12 hours from Japan to Italy. COnditions were very far from ideal, and the same is true for the 33:05 10km.

    Had I put myself in ideal condition, those 1:15:29 and 33:05 would have been faster.

    The 2:43 PB was ran in ideal condition, but I must admit that the training that brought me there was much more modest than what I did for 33:05 and 1:15:29. I’m not sure they can be compared.

    So there’s a couple possibilities: 1) You’re not properly trained for the longer distances.

    Perhaps this is true, but my main wonder is : why I was in my best marathon fitness and I ran my slowest marathon ? I trained less for 2:43 than I did for 2:52.

    2) You’re built to race best in the 5K-10K range (or possibly even shorter), and that’s just the way it is. Let’s take a closer look at your training…

    You seem to have plenty of background, run adequate volume,

    I think more than adequate, I ran less for 2:43 !

    But what really jumps out at me is that you seem to train at only 2 speeds… easy pace and your 3:20-3:30/km intervals. You seem to completely neglect tempo runs and marathon pace runs

    My intervals are relatively long (total time of hard running is typically 40-50min), with very short recovery (1min). This is much better for LT than it is for VO2max.

    But you are right, the difference between this marathon adn those before is that I almost completely missed MP runs.

    So as you suggest, the problem may be that you didn’t train specifically enough for the distance.

    Again, I’m afraid you are dead right. But again, it’s frustrating : I had much more confident because my mileage was higher and my fast session were faster.

    I’m willing to bet you would improve in the future if you put more emphasis on tempo runs, regardless of the distance you’re training for, and maybe a little less emphasis on the intervals if training for a marathon.

    The race was 8 days ago. I’m jogging very easy right now. Sure I very much look forward to change my training in the direction you say and see how things change.

    I’d be shocked if this didn’t make a significant difference, though again, there’s always the possibility that you’re more of a 5-10K specialist. Only time will tell.

    I believe I’m more built for the mary than for anything else.

    My first road mary was 2:49:30, but at that time my 10km and HM best were 34:49 and 1:17:40. Training and conditions were equally good.

    But you are right, only time will tell. I look forward to more running and to find it out.

    While you had a disappointing race, it doesn’t sound like such a disaster to me. You found the strength to finish when you had nothing left in the tank, still managed to have a good time, and you’re striving to learn from the experience. It may turn out to be a great race after all.

    From the point of view of the performance, comparing what I thought I was in shaper for (by looking at training and mary races for this and for the 2 before), I still consider it a disaster.

    But overall it was good. Running is not (not only) about running fast or slow. It’s also about learning from mistakes. It’s also about enjoying sacrifices as well as pain of training and races.

    Thanks again for patience and good comments.

    I look forward to more running.

  • #16914

    ferris
    Member

    well…you see, to be analyzing your training pretty well and we may have found some answers, but there are a few other things to consider. Aside form the training, maybe you weren’t fully hydrated, maybe you didint eat enough during the race, maybe you didnt eat the right stuff prior, maybe it just wasn’t your day. It sucks, but it happens that way sometimes. Just take all of this data into consideration and take another swing at it.

  • #16814

    ferris
    Member

    well…you see, to be analyzing your training pretty well and we may have found some answers, but there are a few other things to consider. Aside form the training, maybe you weren’t fully hydrated, maybe you didint eat enough during the race, maybe you didnt eat the right stuff prior, maybe it just wasn’t your day. It sucks, but it happens that way sometimes. Just take all of this data into consideration and take another swing at it.

  • #16915

    Ed 1
    Member

    I have only trained for and ran one marathon so far. However, almost every run I did from 2 – 20 miles was at an 8:00 minute per mile pace. That is almost the exact pace I held for the entire marathon start to finish. I did no strides, hills, repeats or anything else – just a building phase at the same pace for four months that tappered to race day. The race was great – I had virtually no problems. Marathon training pace helped me tremendously for my first (and only) ((so far)) marathon.

  • #16815

    Ed 1
    Member

    I have only trained for and ran one marathon so far. However, almost every run I did from 2 – 20 miles was at an 8:00 minute per mile pace. That is almost the exact pace I held for the entire marathon start to finish. I did no strides, hills, repeats or anything else – just a building phase at the same pace for four months that tappered to race day. The race was great – I had virtually no problems. Marathon training pace helped me tremendously for my first (and only) ((so far)) marathon.

  • #16916

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Ed, no offense intended but as I read your post, all I could think is you have a lot to learn. Race pace training has its place but that place is relatively small.

  • #16816

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Ed, no offense intended but as I read your post, all I could think is you have a lot to learn. Race pace training has its place but that place is relatively small.

  • #16917

    ferris
    Member

    uhm, ya. If you just go out and simply run everyday, and then go do a Mary at the pace you run everyday at, that doesn’t make your everyday pace your marathon pace. Thats what I think Ryan wanted to say. But he’s just to nice to say it. 🙂

  • #16817

    ferris
    Member

    uhm, ya. If you just go out and simply run everyday, and then go do a Mary at the pace you run everyday at, that doesn’t make your everyday pace your marathon pace. Thats what I think Ryan wanted to say. But he’s just to nice to say it. 🙂

  • #16918

    Ed 1
    Member

    How then do you find “your” mary pace? How does one find all of the training paces – for repeats, fartleks, strides etc…?

  • #16818

    Ed 1
    Member

    How then do you find “your” mary pace? How does one find all of the training paces – for repeats, fartleks, strides etc…?

  • #16919

    r-at-work
    Member

    try mcmillianrunning.com

    -Rita

  • #16819

    r-at-work
    Member

    try mcmillianrunning.com

    -Rita

  • #16920

    Ed 1
    Member

    That looks like a nice site but I want to improve my time not train for the same level. If I want to improve (over a year) by 35 minutes – what are the new paces that I need to do?

  • #16820

    Ed 1
    Member

    That looks like a nice site but I want to improve my time not train for the same level. If I want to improve (over a year) by 35 minutes – what are the new paces that I need to do?

  • #16921

    Zeke
    Member
    Ed 1 wrote:
    That looks like a nice site but I want to improve my time not train for the same level. If I want to improve (over a year) by 35 minutes – what are the new paces that I need to do?

    Ed,

    Did you see this page on the McMillan site?

    http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/Running%20University/Article%201/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm

    It’s a nice calculator that let’s you punch in recent race results and it’ll spit out suggested training paces. Or you could punch in your goal time and it’ll spit back where you “need to be” to reach that time. However, don’t punch in 3:00 and starting running your mileage at the suggested paces. You have to train at the shape you’re in now, not where you want to be.

    How then do you find “your” mary pace? How does one find all of the training paces – for repeats, fartleks, strides etc…?

    This is one of the reasons I said you should go ahead and run the Jingle Bell 10k on the 11th. Then we can use that race time to determine your current fitness level and set up some paces based on that.

  • #16821

    Zeke
    Member
    Ed 1 wrote:
    That looks like a nice site but I want to improve my time not train for the same level. If I want to improve (over a year) by 35 minutes – what are the new paces that I need to do?

    Ed,

    Did you see this page on the McMillan site?

    http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/Running%20University/Article%201/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm

    It’s a nice calculator that let’s you punch in recent race results and it’ll spit out suggested training paces. Or you could punch in your goal time and it’ll spit back where you “need to be” to reach that time. However, don’t punch in 3:00 and starting running your mileage at the suggested paces. You have to train at the shape you’re in now, not where you want to be.

    How then do you find “your” mary pace? How does one find all of the training paces – for repeats, fartleks, strides etc…?

    This is one of the reasons I said you should go ahead and run the Jingle Bell 10k on the 11th. Then we can use that race time to determine your current fitness level and set up some paces based on that.

  • #16922

    PeppoMiles
    Member

    You have to train at the shape you’re in now, not where you want to be.

    Exact. I want to run a 2:04 marathon. But I’m not going to train like someone who will run 2:04, I’m going to train like someone who ran 2:52 recently.

    This is one of the reasons I said you should go ahead and run the Jingle Bell 10k on the 11th. Then we can use that race time to determine your current fitness level and set up some paces based on that.

    Train. Race. Speak with other runners. Eventually you’ll understand things naturally without need to look much at books or calculator of any sort. All that stuff is good for guidance and has a large degree of uncertainty.

    Most people put far too much effort in worrying about details of paces and distances, and not enough effort and dedication on training.

    Train more and think a little less about it.

  • #16822

    PeppoMiles
    Member

    You have to train at the shape you’re in now, not where you want to be.

    Exact. I want to run a 2:04 marathon. But I’m not going to train like someone who will run 2:04, I’m going to train like someone who ran 2:52 recently.

    This is one of the reasons I said you should go ahead and run the Jingle Bell 10k on the 11th. Then we can use that race time to determine your current fitness level and set up some paces based on that.

    Train. Race. Speak with other runners. Eventually you’ll understand things naturally without need to look much at books or calculator of any sort. All that stuff is good for guidance and has a large degree of uncertainty.

    Most people put far too much effort in worrying about details of paces and distances, and not enough effort and dedication on training.

    Train more and think a little less about it.

  • #16923

    Double
    Member

    That’s pretty much right on. The main focus is doing the act of running consistently day after day. Minimumly, a person who is at the early stages of learning to run should spend 6 months training before diving into a marathon plan.

    My opinion is this. A 3:30+ marathoner who wants to break 3:00 should only be out running mileage and building on that weekly. Rest when needed, blow out a race once-in-a-while, and continue to learn about running. Learn what you can handle, learn what suits you, motivates you, and most importantly; what makes it fun.

    I’m in this because I love it. I’m still learning, experimenting, and trying to tell others who have high goals what the main secret for marathoning

    is.

    Anyone remember?

  • #16823

    Double
    Member

    That’s pretty much right on. The main focus is doing the act of running consistently day after day. Minimumly, a person who is at the early stages of learning to run should spend 6 months training before diving into a marathon plan.

    My opinion is this. A 3:30+ marathoner who wants to break 3:00 should only be out running mileage and building on that weekly. Rest when needed, blow out a race once-in-a-while, and continue to learn about running. Learn what you can handle, learn what suits you, motivates you, and most importantly; what makes it fun.

    I’m in this because I love it. I’m still learning, experimenting, and trying to tell others who have high goals what the main secret for marathoning

    is.

    Anyone remember?

  • #16924

    Ryan
    Keymaster
    PeppoMiles wrote:
    Most people put far too much effort in worrying about details of paces and distances, and not enough effort and dedication on training.

    Train more and think a little less about it.

    There’s something a lot of people, myself included at times, need to keep in mind. I can’t tell you how many people at times frustrate me because they seemingly spend more time thinking about training than actually training. Thinking doesn’t make you faster, training does. If you don’t know what to do, just get out and run. That’s better than overthinking.

  • #16824

    Ryan
    Keymaster
    PeppoMiles wrote:
    Most people put far too much effort in worrying about details of paces and distances, and not enough effort and dedication on training.

    Train more and think a little less about it.

    There’s something a lot of people, myself included at times, need to keep in mind. I can’t tell you how many people at times frustrate me because they seemingly spend more time thinking about training than actually training. Thinking doesn’t make you faster, training does. If you don’t know what to do, just get out and run. That’s better than overthinking.

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