Shooting cats? What about dogs?

Welcome! Forums Non-Running Forum Shooting cats? What about dogs?

This topic contains 13 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Ryan 13 years, 7 months ago.

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  • #2401

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    There is discussion in Wisconsin right now about removing cats from the protected species list, which would mean that hunters and property owners who encountered cats not under direct control of any owner or not wearing a collar could legally shoot them. This would put them on the same level as possums and skunks, where farmers, land owners, and hunters shoot these animals if they feel that the animals are being pests. Proponents of removing cats from the protected species list claim that this will help control the population of cats that kill small animals and threaten people.

    My question is, if we are to do this, why not extend it to dogs? Every year in this country, an estimated 5 million dog bites occur. Almost 800,000 per year require medical treatment. In 2001, 368,245 dog bite victims (nearly 1009/day, over 42/hour) had to go to emergency rooms to get treated. Dog bites cost Americans $1-2 billion (that’s with a B) every year. All of these statistics (source of most of them) only count bites. They do not even factor in the much more frequent incidents of dogs tripping or knocking down or otherwise physically assaulting victims unless the physical assault includes a bite. Even more, all of these numbers are increasing, in spite of laws designed to prevent bites and other dangerous situations.

    We have an epidemic on our hands and people don’t even seem to care. Just this past Saturday, I got tripped by a black lab while running in Minooka Park. My response to that after the fact was maybe this will be a good year, I made it nearly a full 2 weeks in Minooka Park before my first dog incident involving actual physical contact. How sad is that? I now consider going less than two weeks without being physically assaulted by a dog a good streak. As of now, I have run 15 times in Minooka Park on 13 different days over a 15 day period. Every single time I have run in the park, I have seen multiple loose dogs. This is a place where local laws require dogs to be on leash and park regulations require dogs to be on a leash that is no more than 6 feet long. I have contacted County Parks officials about this and they say they are powerless to act on it, even though a County Parks regulation is being violated, and that I should contact the police. I have contacted the police about this and they say that the manpower required to enforce the laws in the park are not worth it for this “nuisance law”.

    What am I getting at? People are up in arms about loose cats to the point that they want to have the right to shoot them. However, dogs are a much more significant threat to public safety than cats. If people consider the shooting of loose cats to be acceptable because they attack small animals and occasionally go after people, the shooting of loose dogs should also be acceptable because they attack the same small animals plus they attack people at alarming rates.

    Of course, most people who really know me know that I am a true animal lover and I cringe at the thought of allowing people to shoot either cats or dogs. I couldn’t imagine the thought that I could take my cat up to my mother’s house and, if he got out when someone wasn’t careful enough at a door, someone would have the right to shoot him. I don’t think shooting either cats or dogs is the right way to control the population of loose cats and dogs. However, I do think something has to be done as the loose dog situation especially has for quite some time gone beyond the realm of a nuisance and become a public safety issue. A nice start may be actual enforcement of leash laws.

  • #18276

    Anonymous

    I find it odd that so many people feel so much animosity toward cats. They are much less of a nuisance and much less of a threat to humans.

    We live out in the country and raise goats and chickens and also have a couple of horses. When we first got goats, one of our goats was killed by a neighbor dog. Our solution has been to allow our dog to live outside. She is part Aussie (herding) and part Great Pyrenees (guardian). She is definitely much more the guardian than the herder. If we let her know that we do not want a dog on our property, she takes care of the rest. It would be legal for us to shoot the dogs, but Murphy is slightly more humane — unless they stay to fight. She’s only had to fight one dog and it went away after Murphy attacked four times. Usually she just stands the neighbor dogs down. Although she seems so cuddly and friendly, other dogs must find her formidable. She has stood down bull mastiffs that were larger than her even though there were two of them.

    When I run, it’s a different story. Few people contain their dogs in the country and I’m bound to pass some place that has dogs.

    For the aggressive dogs, I approach aggressively. I run at them if they run into the road. If they try to chase as I run by, I spin around, yell at them, and raise my arms to look bigger. I’ve been known to throw rocks before, but my aim is not too good. Once there were three dogs working together. That time, I was much meeker. I walked until I got clear. One kept trying to circle behind me. That made me nervous. On some occassions, I see an obese dog running out to the road. When that happens, I feel sad that the dog was allowed to become so fat. I do not waste any time on them though. I just pick up the pace a bit and beat them to the edge of their property. They don’t have much chase in them.

    I actually have more problems with the friendly dogs. They just want to play or to run with me. Although it is hard for me, I have to make them understand that I do not want their company. I remember throwing a rock at this friendly, not-quite-full-grown lab. He wouldn’t leave me until a rock hit his paw. The wounded look he gave me made me feel really bad, but I really believe though that he was safer staying home with a hurt paw.

    Good luck dealing with the dogs. In some ways, it is probably harder to deal with the dogs in the city with negligent owners. Normally if I see any owner it’s an owner calling their dogs back to the house. Usually the dogs heed their owners fairly well. It’s sad that no one there will enforce the ordinance at your park. Unfortunately it will probably take someone getting seriously hurt for them to change their policy.

    Steve

  • #18277

    Anonymous

    If I were you I would be much more concerned about them widening the net to include not only pussy cats, but pussies like yourself, who end up in the hospital without even getting bit.

    🙄

  • #18278

    Anonymous

    Obviously disallowed username loves dogs (to a freightening and possibly perverse extent) and hates cats. I carry protection when I run and if a dog attacks it will die.

    The point of this post is that dog owners and dog lovers seem to think that they are above the law and do not need to follow leash laws. I am not worried about a cat taking off after me while the owner lamely calls after it to no avail. Instict or not – dogs are more dangerous than cats.

    I will kill a dog if it comes after me – no problem. My health is worth more than any dog’s life. If the owner cares so little about the dog’s life that he cannot leash the animal then it is the owner’s fault if I kill the animal.

  • #18279

    r-at-work
    Member

    I am an animal lover… I’ve never been chased by a cat while I ran…

    on the other hand my neighbors’ have a young Doberman (female) that they cannot control even when on a leash… I have had that dog jump on me while I was running and they had her in their yard (backs up to the trail) on a leash… they have tried trainers but after seeing the dog with the trainer I realize it is the OWNERS that have the problem…

    one example, when I was in my own yard with my dog, we have an underground electric fence and my dog will not go near the perimeter… he was snoozing in the shade when the neighbor brought her dog out… the dog proceeded to drag her into my yard as she screamed at it to stop “because you KNOW I have high heels on”… first if all why would the dog know that , or care and why was this woman so stupid as to wear heels to walk the dog knowing that the dog was stronger than her… so the dog goes to jump my dog who has raised his head by this point wondering what the commotion was… we all got the the same spot at the same time and as her dog jumped on mine I kicked it, my dog jumped up and in front of me… she fell backwards & down since she had been hanging back trying to stop the dog, who when I kicked it also jumped BACK…

    now I felt bad about kicking her dog, she didn’t really see it since she was so busy trying to keep her feet (and failling miserably at it)… and when her dog yelped she asked me if my dog had bitten her dog… I told her that no, he hadn’t but if he had it would have been a good thing since it WAS his yard… she had struggle to get to her feet and by this time her husband came out and helped her drag the dog back into their yard…

    enforce the leash laws… yep… but what are we going to do with the owners that can’t control their dogs even on a leash? But if you want another good feeling how about Congress making hand guns legal in DC…yikes…that’s another can of worms…

    -Rita

  • #18280

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    I have now twice encountered three Great Danes (also known as German Mastiffs) running loose in the county park I run in most frequently. The owners show a complete disregard for the law and for the safety of others. One of the dogs, of course larger than a person for anyone who knows their dogs, chased me and the only thing the owners bothered doing was casually walk up and tell me not to move and the dog won’t bother me. Too late, it already bothered me. Also, these dogs are known for being quite vicious as they were bred and trained for years to chase and kill anything that they see moving.

    For now on, I am carrying pepper spray with me any time I step into that park and I will not hesitate to use it. Better the dog than me. I can almost guarantee I will have to use it this summer and I’m sure the dog owners will make a big deal of it. I guess it’s up to them: obey leash laws or risk your dog getting a face full of pepper spray.

    As for cats, not once have I ever felt threatened by a loose cat. Which is the bigger risk?

  • #18281

    Anonymous
    Ryan wrote:
    I have now twice encountered three Great Danes (also known as German Mastiffs) running loose in the county park I run in most frequently. The owners show a complete disregard for the law and for the safety of others. One of the dogs, of course larger than a person for anyone who knows their dogs, chased me and the only thing the owners bothered doing was casually walk up and tell me not to move and the dog won’t bother me. Too late, it already bothered me. Also, these dogs are known for being quite vicious as they were bred and trained for years to chase and kill anything that they see moving.

    For now on, I am carrying pepper spray with me any time I step into that park and I will not hesitate to use it. Better the dog than me. I can almost guarantee I will have to use it this summer and I’m sure the dog owners will make a big deal of it. I guess it’s up to them: obey leash laws or risk your dog getting a face full of pepper spray.

    As for cats, not once have I ever felt threatened by a loose cat. Which is the bigger risk?

    What manner of vicious beast sent you to the ER?

    I’ll bet a cat could take you down in a heartbeat.

  • #18282

    Anonymous

    What manner of vicious beast sent you to the ER?

    I’ll bet a cat could take you down in a heartbeat.

    😆

    Next installment in the saga of Ry-Ry:

    Yesterday a Yorkie stole my pepper spray and sent me to the ER again.

  • #18283

    Anonymous

    Disallowed username sounds like a prepubescent teeny bopper – that likes to cause strife in the internet world, making inflamatory comments only intended to provoke people that he/she would not make face to face – due to their immense cowardice.

  • #18284

    Anonymous

    Another point I would like to make is that disallowed username obviously sounds like one of the lazy dog owners that have no respect for laws.

  • #18285

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Considering the fact that “Disallowed Username” references an ER visit that I have never mentioned in this thread or on this site for that matter, I know where this person is from. Further, from the confrontational attitude, I have a pretty good idea of who this person is.

    As for my trip to the ER, I’d like to know how many people, while running, could manage to stay on their feet when a full grown black lab runs at them at full speed and lunges at them from behind. A fall into a rock fire pit during such an incident would send most people to the ER. Worse yet, it could be deadly if one was unlucky enough to hit one’s head on one of the rocks when falling into the fire pit. I also wonder if “Disallowed Username” saw other stories of ER visits by other people on that same website, such as someone who was knocked down by a dog causing a severe break of a bone in the leg that left the person on crutches for months and not running for nearly a year. The owner of the dog was never brought to justice because they grabbed the dog and split while bystanders were making sure the runner got the medical attention he needed. There are many stories like these of people being seriously injured by usually “friendly” dogs without a bite even occurring. Add these incidents to the bite statistics and the numbers would be even more staggering than the numbers just involving bites already are.

    I have mixed feelings in saying that the situation at Minooka Park is getting better since better is a relative term. In the past month, I have encountered those three Great Danes 4 times and been chased by one of them twice. This period includes a period of a week where I was not even in town, meaning I’m averaging over once per week seeing these very large dogs loose in the park and nearly once per week being chased by them. The owners have yet to show any concern unless I let them know the threat of pepper spray is real, at which time they do what they can to restrain their beasts while yelling at me that they will kill me if I do anything to harm their dogs. I guess, for these people, human life really is less valuable than the lives of their dogs. Fortunately, other than the Great Danes, things are improving as I’m seeing more dogs on leash and fewer off leash. Unfortunately, the owners of these Great Danes are ensuring that the park is still not as safe of a place as it should be.

  • #18286

    Just curious … now that summer is over (it is here, anyway), did you ever get a chance to use the pepper spray?

    Martha

  • #18287

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Well, depending on how you look at it, either fortunately or unfortunately, I didn’t have the timing. Along with the hatred of even thinking of using it, I also hate carrying it. While I did carry it several times, never when I felt threatened enough to use it. On a few occasions that I wasn’t carrying it, I would have used it had I been carrying it. About 2-3 weeks before the marathon, I was chased by a pack of 5 dogs while the owners watched it all laughing. I told the owners that, had I been carrying the pepper spray, at least 2 of the dogs would have had it. They gathered their dogs pretty quickly when I said that and, when I saw them again and grabbed a rock in each hand as I was approaching, the owners saw me grab the rocks and I had no issues.

  • #18288

    Mark
    Member

    Fortunately there are very few loose dogs where I run. We also have a leash law but it is very strictly enforced. It hasn’t always been that way. There were several dog attacks that involved fatalities, one of which was a 3 year old child, and suddenly the leash laws were being enforced. As one of the posts referenced, someone will probable have to be hurt or killed before they will enforce the law. I find that true for most things. I work in the health & safety field and we have a saying that “nothing will change until enough blood or the right blood has been shed”. In the case of this topic, until a child or a politically important person is seriously injured or killed nothing will change. I wish it wasn’t so, but experience tells me it is.

    One suggestion that I would make for Ryan or anyone else out there with this problem is to find some stories in your area or other areas if you don’t have any local ones where dogs have attack people and start writing letters to local politicians and news media sharing this info. The more people that help in this process the more likely it is that someone will start to take notice.

    In the mean time always carry the pepper spray and if you can’t get the dogs, chase down the owners (I’ll assume they can’t out run you) and use it on them.

    Just kidding about the owners. If you use it on them they will probable sue you or have you arrested. But on second thought, it might be worth it?

    Mark

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