- April 23, 2004 at 1:25 pm #1422
I must voice my opinion on mid pack runners now. But first lets review why this sport we all participate in is so Great !!
1) People helping people
2) The sprit of competition
3) Having a healthier life
4) Achieving a new PR.
5) having new Frendships with quality people
6) That inner peace we all experience when running alone, and so on
Now most every one on this web site is an average Joe ( Jolean ) . We all are midpack runners.
So why should we not support the masses ? The very heart of our sport . In viewing some of your responses it seems as if you think you’re better than most. Its time to mature If it were not for midpack runners this web site would not be so succesful. Please take this creatively and understand I just want you all opposing this to look at it in a little different way.
- April 23, 2004 at 1:54 pm #14243
RyanKeymasterMichael Kuchar wrote:In viewing some of your responses it seems as if you think you’re better than most. Its time to mature If it were not for midpack runners this web site would not be so succesful. Please take this creatively and understand I just want you all opposing this to look at it in a little different way.
I have to assume this is a response to the midpack awards thread. Does the fact that none of us here are truly elite mean that we should like the idea of rewarding mediocrity instead of rewarding those who have worked hard to rise to the top? I don’t think anyone who really knows me would even think for a moment that I don’t support all runners. However, I think it’s just ridiculous to reward someone for being precisely in the middle of the pack when we should be rewarding people who work hard to achieve greatly. This isn’t about not supporting anyone, it’s about rewarding those who deserve the rewards while still supporting and encouraging everyone.
- April 23, 2004 at 2:12 pm #14244
I am without a doubt a mid-packer… I would be embarassed to get an award (other than my finisher’s certificate) that celebrates that… now I’m not against an occasional age group award and even then the only way I get them is if all the really good (old women, 50-59)runners are somewhere else…
I feel that I support mid packers & even those further back, been there… but I’m appalled when (as has happened) some truly unhealthy obese person tells me they only participate in events to get the medal, only walk and would NEVER run, don’t train (and obviously don’t watch what they eat)…
I am proud of my kids who run, one for his HS and the other just for fun and we have planned family times around local events… I have told them that I am proud of them for TRYING… the HS kid occasionally wins the 19 and under… I doubt the 11 y.o. ever will, but this year he had a five minute PR at a local 5K and THAT we all celebrated… he decided to train now that he’ll be 12 next month…
honest effort is all I ask… I don’t think it’s too much… but I do see a trend towards accepting less and that bothers me… I even used to make my kids rewrite their homework, now they type it…
and YES this is a good site… very few flames… helpful…
- April 23, 2004 at 3:08 pm #14245
Now most every one on this web site is an average Joe ( Jolean ) . We all are midpack runners.
I disagree with this statement. I know I’m not elite and even compared to the strong local talent in Minneapolis, I suck. However, I still finish in the top 5-10% of most races around here. Hell, I ran like crap at Boston and still finished in the top 25-30%.
If you look at the guys/gals that are posting on here regularly (you, Ryan, Double, Pski, Woody, Dan, LLL, Cameron and on and on), I’m at the back of that pack.
I’m not saying I have anything against mid-pack and back-of-the-pack runners. I’m just saying if you think the people I mentioned above are Average Joe’s, then you’re selling short their efforts. I also don’t think a true mid-packer would appreciate or agree with someone calling a sub-3 hour marathoner a mid-packer.
- April 23, 2004 at 3:09 pm #14246
I read through the other post on this topic, but I’ll post my response here, since this is my first time on these boards and I don’t know if it’s considered polite to bump up a thread that’s a few days old…
Anyway, I think age group awards are valuable in encouraging people to train harder and become better runners. Naturally, I understand the argument that it shouldn’t be at the expense of the overall awards. But giving age group winners some sort of recognition is a positive incentive to train.
In my first half-marathon, I won my age group – this was something totally unexpected for me. Of course, I was nowhere near winning overall, but it made me realize that at least with my peers, I was doing well. Knowing that, I wanted to see how far I could go if I trained more seriously, increasing my miles and reading up on the advice of coaches. Two months later, I had lowered my time by about 4 minutes and won another age group. This was great encouragement for me, and it reinforced my desire to train. The trophy itself didn’t matter… I actually didn’t go up to get it during the award ceremony, I was embarrassed and waited until everything was over to retrieve it. More important was what it symbolized.
I’ve come to accept that I won’t be an elite. I am saddened by it, but I understand. Having those age group awards to strive for, however, gives me the motivation to keep busting my @ss to win something. It’s a goal that prevents me from deciding to be a “recreational jogger,” someone who just enters every event for the fun, food, and finishers t-shirt.
I can deal with not winning overall – that has only happened a few times at small local races. But when I don’t at least place in my age group, I am furious with myself. And in my disaster of a marathon six weeks ago, when I was no where near the top of my age group, I returned to my training with a renewed intensity, because I *never* wanted to feel like that again. No one else care’s how I finish in races, but I care, and that makes me a better runner than I would be otherwise.
For people who are younger than the “peak” long-distance racing age, age group awards give them a gauge of their progress and something to strive for. For people who are older than the elites, age group awards give them a reason to keep being competitive. Ideally, we’d all want to live up to our potential even without the outside validation of an award – but sometimes it can be that extra push.
~ La Corredora (for those who know me on RW’s boards… I decided to visit Ryan today 😉 )
- April 23, 2004 at 4:48 pm #14247
dude, don’t just assume we are all midpackers here. You labeling us as midpackers without knowing any of our times is just as bad as us poo-pooing midpacker awards without knowing the circumstances.
Race directors can give awards to anyone they want…….4th overall female with left shoe 1/2 size larger than right show can be a category if they want it to be, but that doesn’t mean we have to aceept it.
We have the right to not be cool with it, that is the basis of debate, which stimultates converstion, which is good.
One of my favorite running topics to debate is how “fast” can someone finish a marathon and still be able to say they “ran” it or be considered a “marathoner”. It usualy tends to bring up a lot of viewpoints, which I like.
btw…this is ferris…..”cybernanny” wouldnt let me log in….grrrr.
- April 23, 2004 at 5:04 pm #14248
I am a true mid pack kind of guy at this time. I want no awards for doing what I do unless I am top three in either overall or age. I am sick of the way America is heading with the fear of hurting some one’s feelings or self esteem. Get over it and let the journey be the reward. If everyone gets an award then where is the competition? It will no longer be a sport.
- April 23, 2004 at 5:54 pm #14249
A midpacker is someone who runs for fitness and participates in races because its an ‘event’.
As slow as I am, and I am still VERY slow (my marathon PB is only 3:37), I do not accept being categorized as a ‘midpacker’ by your statement “we are all midpack runners”.
I may not be very fast but I train like an athlete, work my butt off to improve and don’t consider myself a recreational runner.
At last years NYC marathon 35286 runners finished the race. Only 7748 finished in under 4 hours; even at 4.5 hours less than 1/2 the field had finished. Even my slow PB would place me around 3264; which is in the top 10 percent. And I am probably one of the slowest people on this board.
Ryan’s PB would have placed him in the top 100 finishers at last years race. Many other posters on here would have finished in the top 1%.
I rely on this forum for information because of the quality of the posters. I don’t know if anybody here is ‘elite’ but very few are midpackers!
- April 23, 2004 at 6:41 pm #14250
I train, I work 40 hours at my job, take care of a household and I’m old enough to (probably) be your mom, maybe grandmom to some of you guys… I’m also slow, but I’m proud of the fact that last year I ran a PR for almost all the distance I ran (5K, 8K, 10K, half & full marathon)…
now granted I’ve only been running since 1991…
the joke at my house is that either I’m going to get faster this year and qualify for Boston (said it last year too) , or I’ll keep running till I get old enough that the requirement comes down, as in I’ll only have to run the same time for another ten years… 😉
I can understand that it bothers some to be grouped in with runners like me who on a good day are mid-packers… but it also bothers me when some say “if you just trained harder you could break HH:MM:SS”…
everybody has some talent, mine is just not manifest in my running, unless you consider tenacity a kind of talent… I hope this board is around ten years from now because I plan on being here…
- April 23, 2004 at 6:51 pm #14251
runnerdudeMemberMichael Kuchar wrote:Now most every one on this web site is an average Joe ( Jolean ) . We all are midpack runners. So why should we not support the masses ? The very heart of our sport . In viewing some of your responses it seems as if you think you’re better than most. Its time to mature If it were not for midpack runners this web site would not be so succesful. Please take this creatively and understand I just want you all opposing this to look at it in a little different way.
1) “We are all midpack runners.” Speak for yourself.
2) “the masses ? The very heart of our sport.” Actually, no. The elites are the stars of the sport just like the pros are the stars of the NBA, NFL, etc…The “heart” of the sport are the young high school and college runners who aspire to the olympics & beyond. Midpack runners are like the stage props on a theater set.
3) Please take this creatively and understand that you are completely out of touch with reality.
- April 23, 2004 at 7:11 pm #14252
Kooch – looks liike you hit a major nerve with these frontrunners …. 😉
- April 23, 2004 at 8:06 pm #14253
You know, as far as midpack is concerned……you can’t define it because it depends on the race. You might run a 19 minute 5k in one race, and finish in the top 10, another race you may not even crack the top 100.
Fast is relative, people think different paces are “fast.” Recreational runners are still runners, they’re out there having fun. So what if they don’t sizzle out fartlek sessions or keep a training log down to the millasecond of the time they spend running. They are running, and that makes them a runner. If they don’t feel that way, then let em.
- April 23, 2004 at 8:31 pm #14254
RyanKeymasterSchpeff wrote:Recreational runners are still runners, they’re out there having fun. So what if they don’t sizzle out fartlek sessions or keep a training log down to the millasecond of the time they spend running. They are running, and that makes them a runner. If they don’t feel that way, then let em.
I don’t think anyone has disagreed with this idea. The disagreement comes with the idea of offering awards to someone because they finish in the midpack instead of giving those awards to the people who are out there achieving at higher levels. Yes, welcome and encourage everyone to run. However, awards that are based in any way on place should be given to those who are winning, whether they are winning overall or age group is a whole other topic, not to those who are finishing somewhere in the middle.
- April 23, 2004 at 10:36 pm #14255
Gotcha, Ryan. I probably misread the original argument.
I do agree with you on the awards thing though.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.