Welcome! Forums Running Forum TLT and HRM

This topic contains 10 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  ferris 15 years, 3 months ago.

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  • #1323

    Sunday I did the Daniels TLT run.

    I shortened it a bit because I wasnt really ready for the whole thing.

    JD has the workout as 3-4 800’s or 1000’s at T pace followed by a 1 hour run then 3-4 800’s-1000’s after the run (or something close to that).

    I did a 15 min Warmup, 3×800 (2:55 avg), then a 50 min run, 4×800 (2:53 avg), 15 min cooldown.

    I have done the “full” version before when I was training for a Mary. I forgot just how awesome this workout is. It really does simulate the “dull” pain and fatigue you feel in longer races (1/2 mary and up)

    The down side is, it smoked me for the rest of the day! I don’t think it helped that I biked and ran the day before with the baby trailer acting like a sail into the 40 mph wind gusts!

    anyway, its a great workout I recommend putting into your training arsenal.

    as for the HRM part….my wife bought me one so I decided to try it out. I usually don’t worry a lot about HR because I know myself and pace pretty well. This run kinda opened my eyes a bit to HRM’s (Ryan..count to 10 before you flip! 🙂 ) lets have some fun and do a compare/contrast….like HS English class!

    1. the HRM “told” me my easy pace was a bit fast (HR wise)

    BUT…..the wind threw it off a bit and I felt fine.

    2. the HRM “told” me I was a bit fast on the Tempo parts of the run…BUT my zones are set by the HRM using the 220- age which is very generic and not entirely accurate…….kinda like those height/weight charts the military used to use.

    They can be good, but in my opinion, they can stop you from venturing out of your “comfort zone”, and we need to do that every now and then.

    On the other hand, HRM’s can be a nice insight to pace and perceived effort. So, to sum it up…my opinion of HRM’s…..I dunno yet!

  • #13864

    just my own experience from this weekend…

    Saturday – 20M on trails (AVG HR 167) last 10M was faster than the first 10M. dead nutz tired, took a 2 hr nap. temps began in low 40’s and rose to low 50’s.

    Sunday – 14M on trails (AVG HR 157) first 7M had a net elevation gain, last 7M was downhill. felt fine for the rest of the day. temps in the low 30’s.

    based on past experience, i know that if i can keep my LSD’s AVG HR below 160, i’m running much more aerobic and end up more functional after the run. i’m planning on running a marathon this wkend and keep my AVG HR below 160…and hopefully will be functional enough to muster another semi-long run the next day.

    just my 2 cents…

  • #13865


    First off, I am really curious about those TLT runs. I might have to try throwing one or two of those into my training plan this year and see what I think of them.

    Second, I think you misunderstand my HRM beef. If someone wants to wear a HRM, feel free. I just don’t understand the claims of need and I believe people who rely too heavily on HRMs to set their pace miss out on learning an important part of running, the ability to listen to your body’s signals and adjust accordingly. The only time I get upset with HRM proponents is when they try to become salespersons and try to insist to me that I would be a much better runner if I would use one.

  • #13866

    when I did my last Marathon, I wish I had done more T-L-T runs.

    I HIGHLY recommend them. In a 16 week cycle I will probably do about 2-4 of them, they simply train you to run when you are tired and then run harder…..just a pure “balls” workout. You never feel spent, just that dull fatigue I mentioned before.

    Over the past 3 years I have been experimenting with different types pf training and workouts, and the T-L-T is near the top. Especially for someone who needs to work on the ability to grind.

    When I race now, I notice that I am running even splits…I credit it to all of the “strength” runs like the T-L-T stuff and Tempo runs.

    I honestly think Tempo runs are the key to improving….I could go all day about why….but I just don’t have the time right now!

  • #13867

    i guess my post dealt more with HRM’s than the TLT workout. 🙄

    can someone fill me in on what TLT stands for and what the workout entails? (i have a few of his books but am not familiar with this specific workout)

  • #13868


    TLT stands for threshold/long/threshold or tempo/long/tempo. The idea is that you run a tempo run or cruise intervals, then run easy for an hour, then do another tempo run or more cruise intervals. I don’t have all the details at the moment. If you want to know more, maybe someone else can fill you in more or I can find the book.

  • #13869


    Daniels lists the T-L-T as:

    Threshold -Long -Threshold

    The first THRESHOLD run is anything from 4x 6 minutes all the way up to 20 minutes

    the LONG part is anywhere from 50 minutes to 12 miles

    the second THRESHOLD is in the same range as the first one.

    Daniels defines Threshold as : “the pace you could run for an hour race”

    others say it is somewhere between 10k and 1/2 mary pace

    so , for example, my run yesterday was a continuous 1 hour 24 minute run, but it went like this:

    10 minute warmup

    3×800 at THRESHOLD with 1 minute between each

    then I ran for 50 minutes at regular long run pace, or thereabouts

    as soon as that 50 minutes ended I did 4×800 at THRESHOLD with 1 minute rest between

    10 minute cooldown

    I would sum the workout up as this:

    you do the first Threshold simply to get your legs tired, then you do the long run to get used to running on tired legs…then you do the second Threshold to make yourself an f’ing beast.

  • #13870

    btw……that was me….I don’t know whay I was listed as GUEST or ANONYMOUS. Maybe the server still considers me a “lurker” 😉

  • #13871

    sounds like a brutal workout. did daniels offer any guidelines to how frequently you’d use it or what race distances it would be most beneficial for?

  • #13872


    I don’t think it’s recommended to do very frequently, although ferris may be able to give a specific number. I have a suspicion it would be a heck of a strength workout for someone racing any distance but I only remember it being mentioned when Daniels discusses marathon training.

  • #13873

    I believe JD only has this workout in his marathon training plans. In a 24 week plan, I think he has it twice, maybe three times max.

    I would recommend it for a 1/2 marathon training plan, maybe even a 10k.

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