what should my tempo speed be?

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This topic contains 17 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Jeff 14 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #1334

    Jeff
    Member

    If my last 5k time was a 6:46 mile, with your experience, what would you say my tempo pace should be?

    Jeff

  • #13895

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    7:10 per mile, give or take, if you mean LT pace.

    Maybe this would help you get a rough idea of what your pace should be.

  • #13896

    Zeke
    Member

    I’d say in the 7:10-7:20 range.

  • #13897

    danm
    Member

    Jeff,

    here is a website and calculator that I really like. At the end of a season (2002) I poured over my race times and went back over a lot of my training paces and it was frightening to see how close they were to what this calculator said they should be. This was after the fact.

    http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/Running%20University/Article%201/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm

    Don’t live and die by it but it is a good close estimator

    Dan

  • #13898

    Jeff
    Member

    Thanks for the replys. Neat calculator, Dan.

    Reason I ask is Daniels has my tempo pace at 6:55. I did 6x 5 minutes at tempo pace(6:55) yesterday with a 1 minutes recovery and I darn near didn’t make it. I did end up finishing and holding the 6:55 but I’m not sure I’d want to do it again.

    I think I will decrease my time a lttle.

    Jeff

  • #13899

    Ryan
    Keymaster
    Jeff wrote:
    Reason I ask is Daniels has my tempo pace at 6:55.

    How did you come up with that pace? Sounds like a pace that would be quite a bit faster than Daniels would suggest. Did you by any chance use a goal pace instead of an actual race result to come up with your paces? Realize that you’re supposed to use recent race results as the paces are supposed to be based on current fitness levels.

    To see what would be roughly, if not exactly, a Daniels suggested pace, try the calculator I linked to above and use recent race results. This is based off formulas that should match the charts in Daniels’ book.

  • #13900

    Jeff
    Member
    Ryan wrote:
    Jeff wrote:
    Reason I ask is Daniels has my tempo pace at 6:55.

    How did you come up with that pace? Sounds like a pace that would be quite a bit faster than Daniels would suggest. Did you by any chance use a goal pace instead of an actual race result to come up with your paces? Realize that you’re supposed to use recent race results as the paces are supposed to be based on current fitness levels.

    To see what would be roughly, if not exactly, a Daniels suggested pace, try the calculator I linked to above and use recent race results. This is based off formulas that should match the charts in Daniels’ book.

    The time comes from a February 5k. I got the tempo pace off Daniels VDOT chart. I just looked again and he has me at a 6:55 for tempo.

  • #13901

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    What was your time for this 5k? Are you sure this was an accurate course? Not aided in any way? The reason I am sounding so suspicious is because a 6:46 pace 5k is 20:58, give or take a second or two. Punch a 20:58 5k into the calculator I gave you the link to (here it is again), which should match the Daniels charts, and I come back with 7:11/mile for threshold training pace. That also happens to be almost dead on with my initial guess of 7:10/mile, give or take.

  • #13902

    Woody
    Member

    Very simply Jeff,

    I don’t look at any calcs— My tempo pace is 10-15 secs per mile slower than my 10k pace , or a pace I could hold for an hour in a race.

    I know some sub 2:30 guys who just use their 1/2 MP.

  • #13903

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Woody, that’s how I originally came up with my 7:10 pace actually. I figured 10k pace for Jeff is probably about 15-20 seconds per mile slower than 5k pace. If you’re using LT pace as your tempo run pace, as Daniels does, add another 5-10 seconds per mile and I had a number right in the 7:10 ballpark.

    Sometimes, the calculators are nice but you can usually figure things out without them.

  • #13904

    Zeke
    Member

    Thanks for the replys. Neat calculator, Dan.

    Reason I ask is Daniels has my tempo pace at 6:55. I did 6x 5 minutes at tempo pace(6:55) yesterday with a 1 minutes recovery.

    Dan’s calculator actually gives you a different paces for cruise intervals (6:57 to 7:06) and tempo runs (7:06 to 7:24) and tempo intervals (7:00 to 7:14) based on a 20:58 5k. I’m not what the difference is between cruise intervals and tempo intervals.

    I’d call the workout you described as cruise intervals. In any case, it seems you were a tad fast. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think with tempo workouts, you’d rather error on the side of being too slow, rather than too fast.

  • #13905

    CTrunr
    Member

    Hi. This thread caught my attention since figuring out the right pace seems to be on my mind all to frequently lately. So I figured I register here and ask a few questions regarding this topic.

    1.) The McMillan calc gives me a 15 second range for pace of Tempo Runs. The “Suggested Training Paces” here on the hillrunner site provide a specific pace for Threshold, which happens to fall into that range. When it all boils down, is there any real difference between these terms and suggested paces?

    2.) This tempo pace appears to fall about 15 secs/mile slower than my 10K. Does that still seem about right?

    3.) The “sub 2:30 guys who just use their 1/2 MP” that Woody mentions would seem to be on the very upper limit of that tempo range. How are they getting away with that? I’d think they’d be running faster tempos to be so successful.

    4.) Lastly, for Ryan – looking at your “Suggested Training Paces” page I am wondering about the VO2max paces for the 800m and 1200m distances. You mention that repeats at those distances work well, and I would certainly agree. Can you include those fields on your page for results, or give me an idea how much a deviation from the 400m pace it would be.

    Thanks in advance, and sorry if I intruded on Jeff’s thread. I’m just trying to clarify pace.

  • #13906

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    OK, I typed up a whole reply and lost it. Let’s see if my second attempt to reply can be worded as well as the first but actually get posted this time…

    CTrunr wrote:
    1.) The McMillan calc gives me a 15 second range for pace of Tempo Runs. The “Suggested Training Paces” here on the hillrunner site provide a specific pace for Threshold, which happens to fall into that range. When it all boils down, is there any real difference between these terms and suggested paces?

    If you know me at all, you know I don’t like following things to the letter. The suggested training paces are meant to give you a ballpark figure, which you can then work from. I could have given a 10-15 second range and it probably would have looked very familiar. I guess I’m just too lazy. It’s easier to say those are starting points that you can work from. As for terminology differences, a lot of people like to narrow the definition of tempo runs as sustained runs at lactate threshold pace so tempo pace works fine. I don’t like doing so, so I use the term threshold pace to signify what the pace is about.

    CTrunr wrote:
    2.) This tempo pace appears to fall about 15 secs/mile slower than my 10K. Does that still seem about right?

    Seems in the ballpark. I usually figure 5-10 seconds per mile slower but 15 isn’t way out there.

    CTrunr wrote:
    3.) The “sub 2:30 guys who just use their 1/2 MP” that Woody mentions would seem to be on the very upper limit of that tempo range. How are they getting away with that? I’d think they’d be running faster tempos to be so successful.

    Two things about the sub-2:30 guys. First, you have to remember that their half marathons are most likely 1:10 or faster. Threshold pace is usually considered to be race pace for a 1:00 race so, for these guys, threshold pace is virtually half marathon pace. Second, I wouldn’t be surprised if they are going longer than the often suggested 20:00 for the threshold run.

    CTrunr wrote:
    4.) Lastly, for Ryan – looking at your “Suggested Training Paces” page I am wondering about the VO2max paces for the 800m and 1200m distances. You mention that repeats at those distances work well, and I would certainly agree. Can you include those fields on your page for results, or give me an idea how much a deviation from the 400m pace it would be.

    I guess I just selected the two most logical distances to work from. 400 meters or one lap on a track and 1000 meters. For 800 meters, simply double the 400 meter time. For 1200 meters, triple the 400 meter time. Likewise, you could come up with times for 600 meters, 1400 meters, 1600 meters (roughly a mile), or any other distance you wanted to with some math. I just didn’t want to clutter up the page too much by giving paces that should be relatively easy to figure out.

  • #13907

    Zeke
    Member

    I just plugged my recent 8k time into the McMillan calculator and it says I can run 25 miles at 6:53 pace, but I need nearly 10 minutes to run the last 1.2 miles, slowing me down to 6:57 pace for a marathon.

  • #13908

    danm
    Member

    Does that jibe with your goal?

  • #13909

    Zeke
    Member
    danm wrote:
    Does that jibe with your goal?

    Overall, his marathon time coincides with where I think I’m at. However, I just thought it was strange that he thinks I can run 6:53 pace for 25 miles, but “only” 6:57 pace for 26.2 miles.

    With that said, don’t look for me to run 3:01:53 at Boston. I’m running ala Slim this time around, 1:38/1:32. If you see my half time faster than 1:35 you know something’s wrong.

  • #13910

    Jeff
    Member

    Thanks to all. It seems that the general consenses is to slow up a little. I’m going to try 7:10 to 7:15 my next outing.

    I did some 1200 intervals tonight at the track and they felt great. Daniel’s sure felt right on with the time on these.

    Jeff

  • #13911

    CTrunr
    Member

    Thanks for replying to my questions.

    I guess I’m going to continue to use a window for my tempo or threshold pace runs as I continue to master this and get better.

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