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I can certainly tell that riding works my quads a lot more than running does.
I was told that you should keep your cadence between 80 and 100. 90 looks like a good number to shoot for.
What’s this M&B all about? I’ll be around for the night and have no plans as of right now.
When I read that you were planning a cut back week at 16 mi I immediately thought to myself “why?”. I agree with Ryan that you should do your 22 miler this weekend and then I would do your 16 miler the weekend after that as part of a 3 week taper. I’m running Grandmas myself (aiming for 2:45) and plan to run my last 20 miler this coming weekend (5/30). I have done a 2 week taper for my previous 8 marathons and want to experiment with a 3 week taper this time with a 16 miler on June 6. Good luck and hope for this cool weather to continue.
Hey, Birkie. If the weather stays like it is we’ll be in Great shape! Good luck.
Jeffpski wrote:Jeff, As you see it’s a no brainer here. It’s crunch time. Do the 22 miler in 3:30 or just under. Using Daniels formula’s your last two long runs are more in line with training for a 3:15 marathon. Do that 22 in about 8:50-8:55’s on average. You’ll come in somewhat under 3:30 I believe. Daniels prescribed long run pace for a 3:30 thon is 8:58’s! Now’s the time, 16 miles two weeks out at the same pace. Tune it up and let it rip.
Patience on those paces. Any one run is just a snapshot in the whole training picture. That’s why your goal and pace are so important. Example, go out to fast in a 5 K, still feel good for 2.5 miles then crash. Well in marathon training you run this risk, train too fast on a Sunday, still feel great for a week and a half, and you did settle in and hit all your correct pacing the rest of the time. Then we can’t figure why the wheels fell off after a good week and a half and half already forgot about the screw up that one given Sunday. Then one may ask, how do we improve? Well the answer is gradually and steadily. The fascinating thing about the marathon isn’t the marathon itself, it’s getting there in the best possible shape.
Best fo Luck Jeff, now go do your 22, then let that taper do it’s job. PSKI
Thanks, Pski. The 16 two weeks out you say do at the same pace. Do you mean the 8:50’s?
Thanks, sounds like I’ll be doing a 22 miler this Sunday.
JeffZeke wrote:I agree with these guys; 20-22 this weekend, then 16ish next weekend. I’ve never tried it, but I think a 22 miler 2 weeks before the race is too close.
Did you end up running the Brookings Half on the 15th?
Thanks,Zeke. No I didn’t run the 1/2. Reason is because I’m in a time crunch for getting in long runs. I did an 18 miler instead.
JeffRyan wrote:Normally, I would say if you consider 22 miles at goal marathon time to be very slow, slow down and do 22 at goal marathon time. However, one thing stands out to me. This Saturday would be 3 weeks out from the 19th. Is there a reason you are pushing back your longest run to only 2 weeks out? I’d do the 22 miler this weekend and cruise into Grandma’s.
I was going to use this weekend as a cut back since I’ve done an 18 and a 20 in a row and just do 16 this week. Then do a 20 or 22 the following then a 2 week taper.
Are you suggesting doing the 22 this Sunday at that 3hr and 30 min? And then do a 3 week taper? If I do it this way should I still fit that 16 miler in there in the last 3 weeks somewhere?
I don’t know. I’m looking for some experienced advice. What do you think would be the best senerio?
Jeffpski wrote:Well I got a chance between court appearances to watch my kids run in their run/walk. It’s under new management, so I don’t know if Hillrunner got hit for acontribution, but I will always be thankful to those who helped out while I was involved in it’s organizatinand fundraising. I have a couple of race reports, Yeah I’m gonna brag but it was soo cool.
My daughter Caitlin, age 11 ran the 800 in 3:44. More impressive is she ran even splits of 1:52.
My son Vincent, age 8, (Well he’ll be 9 on June 1) ran the mile in 6:57, a 47 second PR form last year’s mile he ran. Impressive here too, was he ran very even, 1:44 at the quarter, 3:30 at the half, amazingly still at 5:15 and running hard to the tape from about 150 meters out. He was the fourth to cross out of the k-6th grade school students who chose the mile.
Needless to say, it was a very motivating day, and so many kids were out there giving it their all.
Good day! PSKI
Wow! That sounds great. I have two kids of my own (2 and 4) so I can appreciate the kind of day you had! Sounds like Dad is setting a very good example for the kids by showing them that it’s important to stay fit.
Looks like you have a couple speedsters on your hands. Lots to be proud of.
Thanks for sharing.
JeffAnonymous wrote:I think it’s very impressive given the fact you’ve only been running for just over 2 years. Impressive regardless of how long you’ve been running.
Good job! Looks like theres a lot of potential there!
This was posted by me. It had me as a guest!
My mileage up to my 10 days off went like this:
Injured my hip during the 15 mile TLT run. Put the “icing on the cake” a week later on a 12 mile pace run. Took 10 days off. Notice I hurt my hip during intense training.
Reason I’m ramping up slowly I guess is because I don’t want to reinjur my hip. I cut ALL speed work since this is where I injured it in the first place. I guess I was using the slow ramp up as a healing time too. I think this Sunday’s long run will tell me a lot and what I think my hip will handle.
I guess what I’m saying is that I see where you’re coming from, Zeke, but I’m not 100% sure my hip is 100% healed. I don’t know what it can handle at this point. I would love to continue where I left off.
BTW, my goal was a conservative 3:30 (8 min pace) I would have hit it if I would have stayed on track. I still might.
Please tell me what you think.
I guess it all depends on how my hip is feeling but now that I’m looking at this again I wonder if I shouldn’t try to do long run like this in order to get 2- 20 milers in there:
Week 1= 14
week 2= 16
week 3= 20
week 4= 12
week 5= 20
week 6= 12 mp
week 7= 10
week 8= race
I’m not sure I would be able to run 14 this Sunday. I may shoot for 12 and if it’s feeling good, go for 14.
Should I do a 3 week taper or a 2 week taper? What’s best?
JeffGuest wrote:My husband won’t ever have sex Friday nights because Saturday morning is his long run. Is this crazy talk or is he right when he says he has to conserve his energy?!
I’ve never noticed anything different. I’ve heard some people do this though.
JeffApril 13, 2004 at 4:56 pm in reply to: Paul Tergat – now the focus is only Athens – IAAF interview #14174
“I would like to see myself winning this race more than anything else. I will do everything I can to get this gold medal. I believe it is my last chance for the gold. ….”
I have a feeling that ‘ol Paul might be pretty tough to beat in Athens.
Two different styles? Sure sounds like it.
”To be a good runner takes a long-term investment and we live in a country of instant gratification. It takes eight years to get a distance runner at the level they need to be.” –Kieth Hanson, Hanson Distance Project
“If we compete against some of the naturally talented athletes that we’re going up against, we felt we had to train athletes smarter than we ever have,” Salazar said. “There’s no doubt that the African athletes, particularly, are the greatest distance runners in the world, and to compete against them we feel we’ve got to train as smartly as possible – basically not leave any stone unturned in trying to develop athletes.”
– – Alberto Salazar, Nike Oregon Project referring to new technology.
I don’t know what style is better but since I’ve been doing some reading on both projects, it seems that the Hanson Project is making more progress.
I foud it interesting that the article that I posted a link to states that Dan Browne was produced by the Oregon Project. I don’t quite see it that way. From what I gather is that Browne already had great ability and he just continued to progress that ability and would have regardless if he would have joined the OP or not.
Anyhow, I’m finding this topic very interesting. I’m doing more research on them too.
From the article:
“In track, in the 5,000 or 10,000, the Africans are so fast and dominant, it’s very hard to break in at the medal level,” Browne said. “But in the marathon, there’s just some neat opportunities, that if you can get yourself to a certain level of fitness, on that given day you can do what Bill Rogers and Frank Shorter and Alberto did.”
That’s a pretty big IF, isn’t it?
Article about the Oregon Project. Interesting that it’s titled “Project puts the U.S. back into Running”. By whose standards I wonder?
It’s from June of 2003. But it talks a little about the technology that they are using and what Salazar thinks about it.
Here’s a snippet:
What Salazar and company know now increasingly involves the use of computer-aided training methods. Oregon Project runners regularly have their blood analyzed for lactic acid and red blood cell count. They live in a house that has four sealed rooms that simulate life at 12,000 feet. And they use a treadmill and a breathing tube to measure their oxygen consumption.